Jonathan Hawkins: [00:00:00] I wanna circle back to change again. So you know within the last couple years, went out and started your own firm. You decided to break off, do your own thing. And, you know, so it’s different when it’s just you, and you maybe have, I think you said a couple paralegals now. What’s that been like?

 

And, you know, when it’s just you and managing all the stuff going on, especially you said you have a hard time you know, delegating.

 

What’s that like?

 

Christopher Newbern: You know, I have it’s been the most personally rewarding last three years. I love it, you know, every single case is my baby, you know? And I take a lot of pride in the results that we’re getting and frankly, we’re doing really, really well. And I’m getting some of the I feel like I’m doing some of the best work that I’ve ever done in my career. But it is I do struggle with delegating and frankly, being this small, there’s not that many people to delegate to. You know what I mean?

 

So, time management is critical and is difficult, and I’m still working through that. And, you know, also family. I mean, family is so important. And I mean, that’s one of the things I, [00:01:00] you know, as a lawyer I know it’s tough for everybody, is finding that sweet spot between, you know, being the best lawyer and the most productive lawyer you can be. You know, I’ve got a six-year-old son, so being the best dad that I can be to him, you know, how do you.

 

And then also, who are you outside of the practice of law and being the best person you can be else, you know, because I you know, you’ve gotta focus time, you’ve gotta find a way to focus time in different buckets, and it’s really, really hard. And especially when you’re, you know, that’s one of the struggles here, you know one of the struggles here is running your own firm, is making every decision. You know, wanting to see every document before it gets filed, wanting to see every letter before it gets sent. You know, I have a pet peeve with typos, and I just, I like, you know, I want it to be maintained at a certain standard.

 

Welcome to the Founding Partner Podcast. Join your host, Jonathan Hawkins, as we explore the fascinating stories of successful law firm founders. We’ll uncover their beginnings, triumph over [00:02:00] challenges, and practice growth. Whether you aspire to launch your own firm, have an entrepreneurial spirit, or are just curious about the legal business, you’re in the right place.

 

Let’s dive in.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: Welcome to Founding Partner Podcast. I’m your host, Jonathan Hawkins. This is a podcast where I get to interview law firm founders and hear about all the cool shit they’re doing. And today I’ve got a, a good friend of mine on he’s a personal injury lawyer here in Atlanta area, although I think he does some work around the country.

 

Christopher Newbern. I call him Chris, but I’ll call your full name. Newbern Law Firm. Chris, welcome to the show. Why don’t you give us a little background, tell us about what it is you do in your firm.

 

Christopher Newbern: Yeah. Hey, Jonathan. Thank you so much for having me on. So yeah, I’m, I’m Chris Newburn. I own and operate Newburn Law Firm. It’s we’re a personal injury, wrongful death, plaintiffs practice. I’m based in Atlanta. I’m, I’m right near the Braves stadium. But a, a [00:03:00] lot of cases in Georgia, but like you said, I’ve got cases kinda all over the country.

 

we can get into why that is. But we’ll do pretty much anything. You know, I specialize in trial work and have had some you know, luckily some success in that area. it started doing a whole lot of negligent security work involving violent crime on premises and has kind of expanded to a lot of different types of cases.

 

we’re small. it’s just me and some paralegals. Although I’m, I’m looking into potentially expanding which we can talk about, but I’m doing it slowly because it, you know, some of that… One, you know, I’m, I’m in control and frankly, I’m not great at delegating, so we– I do a lot myself.

 

But also I don’t need to. I’ve, I’ve kept my costs really low intentionally, and my caseload’s low and been selective in what cases I’m willing to work on. And so, so yeah, that, that’s basically the practice. we’ll do anything involving serious injury or wrongful death, and we’ll pretty much [00:04:00] take a case wherever it is.

 

If it’s in Georgia or anywhere in the country, if someone wants to get me involved, we’ll, we’ll jump in and get involved.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: All right. There’s a lot to unpack there that we’re gonna go through ’cause there’s a lot of interesting things. But first, let’s go back, man. So, you started out… You know, a lot of personal injury lawyers start out in insurance defense, and it’s… I think you took that sort of approach, too.

 

Did you always know you wanted to be a trial lawyer? And did you always know that you wanted to be a plaintiff’s lawyer and insurance defense was the way to do it? Or did that sort of unfold later?

 

Christopher Newbern: I have known I wanted to be a trial lawyer… Well, I knew I wanted to do trial work since I was a kid, honestly. I, I did the mock trial stuff when I was in sixth grade, and I still remember it. I’m still really good friends with the attorney that was running the program. And frankly, I- that’s something I need to do is get, is, is get involved with kids because that really inspired me.

 

I’m still friends with him. I worked with him at some point when, before I went to law school. And I, I did well in that as a kid. And I knew, I just, I was hooked on it. [00:05:00] It was either that or acting, because at the time, mock trial was acting, you know. And so I would do mock trial and theater and stuff.

 

And so I, I knew. I– When I was in college, I, I went and saw the, the the career person and was like, “I wanna be a trial lawyer,” you know. And we were talking, she was like, “Well, ve-very small percent of attorneys are trial lawyers. It’s less than 5% of attorneys that go on to do that. So, you know, if you wanna go do law school, that’s great, but, you know, you need to think bigger than that.”

 

And I was like, “No, I, I just wanna be a trial lawyer.” And so coming out of law school, I actually thought I would do like criminal law or something, you know. You just, that’s what you see on TV and that’s… but coming out of law school, I just wanted to get mo- you know, make money. And so I didn’t know how to do it.

 

I didn’t know, I didn’t know, I didn’t know how to get it or how to do it. And so I just it was one of those you just go with the salary. But but it ended up being a great, being the perfect path. I mean, it, it really actually is a really smart path. When I’m, when I’m looking at attorneys to hire right now, I mean, an insurance defense [00:06:00] lawyer s- you know, with a, with, with a few years of experience is almost a perfect candidate to get into plaintiff’s practice because you’re, you know, you’re being forced to learn how to litigate.

 

And maybe the, the stakes are a little different. You have oversight, you have a process that, you know, to teach you. And and so yeah, I went and worked for a large insurance defense firm and, and actually really loved it. I loved the people. I, I loved the work we were doing, frankly. I know a, a lot of plaintiffs’ lawyers have a different opinion of defense, of insurance defense lawyers, but I really respect it.

 

I mean, working there was great and I just knew it’s one of those things, once you’re doing it for a period of time I just got the sense that if you don’t leave it’s gonna be hard to leave. The longer you’re there, the harder it’s gonna be to leave,

 

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. You know, I, I see that a lot too, and, and I’m curious your experience. I’ve talked to other plaintiff lawyers that, you know, if, if you get somebody that’s been in insurance fence too long, it’s a mentality. It’s a reactive not pushing a [00:07:00] case. Y- you know, even like the mentality of they just, you know, are very suspicious of any plaintiff.

 

You know, there’s a lot, a lot of things. So I mean, do you think you can stay too long?

 

Christopher Newbern: Yeah, I, I think it’s a combination of things. I think, I think there is some of that. I think there is you know, when you are, when you’re when you’re being paid to be critical and being paid to be cynical, you know, that can infect the way you perceive the world and the way you perceive injured people.

 

and it al- also can limit you to what you believe is possible because you’re being asked every time as a defense lawyer, “What’s the case worth?” The insurance company wants to know, what’s this case worth? What’s the range of values that are possible? And which of course you don’t know. and but you’re trying to say, “This is the range of values that is likely.”

 

And you know, and, and so that… it, it’s just hard not– it’s hard to lose that when you switch back over. Whereas… And we can talk some more about how I, you know, some of my early experiences in the [00:08:00] plaintiff’s bar just really made me realize a case is worth what you believe it’s worth. You know, it really is worth what you believe it’s worth.

 

There is no set value for these things. So that’s part of it. I think another part is standard of living. I mean, you know, if you’ve been doing defense work for five, six, seven, eight years, I mean, you’re probably at a level of income that it’s just gonna be very hard to convince a plaintiff’s firm to pay you that kind of money, you know?

 

And so you’re, you’re kinda y-y- you know, you, you get to a point where, you know, you don’t have cases. You’re a defense lawyer. You’re, you’re used to a standard of living and which is great but how are you gonna then jump and start something brand new? Unless you’re allowed by the defense firm. Some of these firms do allow you to take on plaintiff’s cases, and that, that might be a good way to do it, but a l- a lot of firms won’t.

 

But I think that’s, that’s a, I think that’s a major limiting factor, even more so probably than the mindset, because you can revamp your mindset by going to work with some, you [00:09:00] know, the right folks. But, but I, I do think there’s a standard of living issue that it’s just hard to… You’re just not as valuable.

 

Once you, you’re, you know, as a third-year defense lawyer, you might be just as valuable to a plaintiff’s practice as a, as a, you know, eight-year lawyer, so.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: You know, that’s a good point. And it’s hard, especially if you’ve been spending all that money you’re making to, to step… If you’re not saving it. And it’s the same thing with even in sort of the big firms, the people trying to leave a big firm to go to a smaller firm, and there they’re making even more money, and it’s just like they, they come to the small firm, they say, “Yeah, we’ll come.

 

I’ll bring business, sure. But you gotta guarantee me X amount.” And a lot of time you’re like, “No. You’ll make more, but it’s not guaranteed. We’ll give you more of a cut. It’s just not guaranteed.” And a lot of those big firm lawyers, they just can’t, they can’t take the risk. And for a PI practice, it’s even worse ’cause you’re not getting paid till you cl- you know, collect the money, right?

 

Christopher Newbern: That’s, that’s 100% true. I think that’s actually true too. I saw a really interesting post by a plaintiffs’ lawyers. I, I won’t… He’s, [00:10:00] he’s a really a really good plaintiffs’ lawyer in Georgia, and he was advertising for a position on, at, at his firm. You know, a, a young, an, an, an, an associate position. And he was saying, “Look, if you’re working at one of the big firms, one of the big advertising firms, you know, this may not be the position for you because, you know, unlike some of those firms, you’re gonna get to really dive in on these cases, and you’re gonna get to really s- you know, dig your teeth into it and whatever.

 

But you’re probably not gonna make the same type of money because you’re not churning and burning, you know, five, 10 cases a, a, a month.” So yeah, I mean, it, it, I… Anyways, but I do think, you know, timing is everything when you choose to do something. And for me, it was, it was the perfect timing. I, I had been in for three years and decided to make the switch, which I really think is kind of a sweet spot for making the jump from defense to plaintiffs’ bar.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: So I do wanna talk about making the switch, but before we do, you mentioned about a case is worth what you believe it. Take me back to that. [00:11:00] Explain that to me.

 

Christopher Newbern: Yeah, I just, I went and what my the first job that I got outside of the defense bar the first job in the plaintiffs’ practice and I just the firm is called Law & Moran. They are fantastic. I cannot tell you enough good things about them. I think they’re probably the premier plaintiffs’ firm in the state, you know, or at least one of.

 

And I just learned so much there. When I first went there I just couldn’t believe some of the values that they believed the cases were worth, you know. And it just was almost a shock to the system, you know. You ask for X amount, and being in defense practice, I’d be like, “This is astronomical.”

 

You know what I mean? This is such a high amount. And then and then they go get it, you know. They’re willing to put their money where their mouth is, and they’re willing to take the shot at it, and they’re a not only willing but able to convince a jury that it is worth that.

 

And you start to think about damage in a different way, you know. The way insurance companies think is they look at what are the [00:12:00] medical costs and they’re a machine. They’ve got so many cases that they’re looking at that they just don’t have enough time to really think about who is this as a human? How has this affected them?

 

You know, they have to look at it in a formulaic way. They have to look at it as what are the medical costs, and then they’ll come up with a pain and suffering calculation based on that. You know, they’ll look at what are the liability, what’s the medical cost, and then give you some kind of multiplier for pain and suffering or whatever it is.

 

And a lot of times they’ll, if it’s you got they’ll 3X your damages on a really good case. So you’ve got 25,000 in meds that, you know, 75 is where they’re looking at for a top number. And I’m generalizing. This is, you know, every case is different. But you know, that’s not how a jury’s gonna do it, and it’s certainly not how a jury’s gonna do it if you’re communicating correctly, you know?

 

And and so, th-there is no formula for these cases, and it really takes learning who the person is that was hurt, learning how it’s truly impacted their [00:13:00] life, and trying to figure out how you can connect something visceral to that, that, that lets a jury under… You know, makes it real for a jury, you know, because trials are so…

 

They can be so sterilized, and so part of the, part of the magic, I think, and, and what some really good trial attorneys are able to do is make it real, is make, is make it real for the jury, make the person who’s hurt a real human being who’s gonna have to live with this thing forever.

 

And then, and then somehow coming up with a framework for how you put these, these issues that are non-monetary, because that’s where the money is, is the non-monetary issue where, where something actually doesn’t have a value. It’s… We can all talk about medical expenses and future medical costs and lost income.

 

I mean, that’s not… You know, there’s no… It doesn’t take a, the, it doesn’t take, you know, a a lot of specialty to discuss those issues. Where, where, where it’s hard to talk about value is the issues that, don’t have… There is no formula that you can apply, that don’t, that, you [00:14:00] know, and, and getting a jury to un- You know, because we have to.

 

I mean, that’s the best system we have. It’s a, it’s a flawed system, but that’s the best we can do, is how do you put someone’s pain and turmoil, how do you put a scar? How do you put, how do you put somebody, you know, a physical limitation? How do you put a value on that? And so, you know, if you, you know…

 

It’s kind of… I’ve made the joke before, if you order, you know, if you go to McDonald’s and you order, you know, a Happy Meal, they’re not gonna give you a Big Mac. You know what I mean? Where they’re not gonna, you know. So you’ve, y-you know, some of it is how much are you asking for and, you know, and setting that sight high but also believing it, you know.

 

You gotta actually truly believe that it’s worth that.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: So let’s talk about that. You know, there’s so many aspects to trying a case. You know, picking the jury, doing the opening, you know, the crosses, all the stuff, and then of course the closing. But asking for the big dollar value, I mean, you know, I can imagine the first time you did it, you’re like, “Man, that just feels weird.”

 

I mean, how do you. And I bet you some lawyers are better at it than other. [00:15:00] I mean, even if you put on the same case, two different lawyers asking for the money is gonna come out differently depending on how you do that. So how do you do that? How do you, Chris?

 

Christopher Newbern: There’s a million. There’s so many different ways. One of the things that before I started trying cases was watch trials and go see how people do it and go read transcripts because you know, it learning from people that have done it and is a good starting point.

 

You know, for me, what seems what has worked for me and what seems to work for others that I truly respect is authenticity. And so, you know, it’s great to have. It’s one thing to say, “Hey, ask for a lot more money. You should ask for more money.” But I don’t think that’s true if you don’t believe it’s worth that, you know, because that’s why we believe in the jury system, is because we’re human lie detectors.

 

You can tell when someone’s bullshitting you. You just can. You can feel it, you know? And so if you don’t truly believe what you’re saying, you’re likely gonna fail. And so, you know, it’s not always great to ask for more money, [00:16:00] you know, I mean, we think about it all the time.

 

We’ve had trials where I look back and I’m like, “Man, I wish I’d have just asked for more money. I really wish I did.” But at the time, you know, we were concern. You know, if you ask for too much money, they’ll just disregard your request. And you’ve fundamentally lost your position with the jury as a guide.

 

And it can impact you know, the liability on the case. They may just not trust you now. And so, you know, for me, I listened to a, I listened and watched and read an attorney that’s really, really good and, and I, I kind of, y-you know, adopted some framework of that where, you know, you just…

 

I, I try to be myself and say, “Look, this is a tough part of the case. Th-this is difficult, you know, My client is expecting me and, and you’re expecting me to tell you what I think the case is worth, and that’s tough because I don’t wanna tell you some amount that’s so high and that you think, ‘Oh, this is just a typical, you know, greedy plaintiff’s lawyer.’

 

But at the same time, I have an obligation to my client. I have an obligation to you to tell you what I truly [00:17:00] believe. And so I trust you. We believe in the jury system. We believe you’re gonna arrive at the tr- you know, at the right number, and we trust whatever number you come up with. All I can do is tell you what I truly believe, and this is what I think.”

 

And then you tell ’em, you know. And that’s, honestly, and I, that’s where I’ve, that’s what I’ve done because you know, I, I, my, my goal is to empower the jury to say, “Look, we– whatever you decide to do is great. You, you don’t gotta listen to me. You don’t gotta listen to them.” You know, y-y-you are the voice of the community, and we, we believe whatever you say is we believe in this system, we believe you’re gonna do the right thing.

 

All I can do is tell you what I think and why, and, you know, and that, that’s a lot of how I’ve done it. And then you ask for a big number, you know, if you believe it. You know, you pick the number that, that you, you know, that you believe in. I mean, that’s, I think that’s a lot of it.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: And you, I mean, recently, maybe a year or so ago, you, you got a big one, didn’t you? What was it, 42, 72? What was it? I can’t

 

Christopher Newbern: It was 42 million. Yeah. It was 42 million. Yeah. It was a good one. It was, it’s the largest, it’s the largest [00:18:00] motorcycle injury verdict in Georgia history. 

 

Jonathan Hawkins: What did you a- did you ask for 42 or, or how did that…

 

Christopher Newbern: we asked for 55. Asked for 55. You know, th-that case was, There really was no iss- the guy was clearly very hurt. The clie- our client named Jonathan, very very good dude and was really, really badly hurt. He, he ran into a trash truck and lost a leg. His arm was welded in place where he couldn’t, he couldn’t flex it, he couldn’t bend it.

 

He lost an eye. His other eye, he had significant vision p-problems with. He had a very serious brain injury. You know, he was still functional and, and speaking, but it, it took a toll. So, I mean, every aspect of his body w- I mean, he was a, he was destroyed by this accident. And so, the damages I’m not surprised by.

 

The hardest part in that case was the liability. The, the, the investigating officer blamed him for the accident, and so did three eyewitnesses. And so, you know, that, that was [00:19:00] really, and that was really the challenge in the case. I, I think you know, i-in that case and in other cases and we, we can talk about this too, you know, a lot of times juries, I, I believe, don’t…

 

They don’t compensate as much as they sometimes punish. And so, and so yes, they are compensating him for what happened to him, but also they were upset. They were angry at the way, not only that the… Not, not even necessarily the event. It’s usually not the event itself, it’s the way the company or the person that caused the incident behaves in the litigation that, that can drive the number.

 

And, and yeah, so I, I, and I’ve seen that, you know, ultimately asking for a big number it helps if you have a misbehaving defendant. Let’s put it that way

 

Jonathan Hawkins: And also some other cases, and sort of a unifying theme is that you are able to take cases that Me or some other person will look at me like, “No way, that’s a dog. I’m not gonna take it.” And you somehow can polish that thing up, polish that lump of coal up into a diamond.

 

[00:20:00] So, do you think that’s something you’ve just figured out? Is that just self-belief? Is it just a trick that you learned somewhere along the way? Or is it that you know, that’s just one of your specialties? I don’t know. Tell me about that.

 

Christopher Newbern: Well, I, I think some of it was learning. You know, the first job I ever had in the plaintiffs space, I, I remember, you know, we were having a, a conversation and, and the attorney was saying he would rather have a case that has a one in 20 shot of winning, but if he wins, he’s gonna get $10 million, than have a case that has a 90% chance of winning, but if he wins, he’s gonna get 100 grand.

 

You know what I mean? Or it’s worth 100 grand. So some of it is, is putting yourself in that position. and, you know, if you’ve got a case that has very suspect liability but potentially massive damages to, you know, one, take the case, ’cause a, a lot of people on these cases that, that have had success on it, a lot of people have passed on it.

 

And two, belief in the case. You know, when, when we tried this [00:21:00] case that, that just got 42 million, they were offering, you know, several million dollars to settle. And it’s not my decision to not take the case. It’s, you know, not take the money. It’s always the client’s decision. So I, it’s, I, I would never advocate for, for that.

 

It… And so some of it is being lucky with a client. You have to have a– You know, you gotta get the case. You gotta say yes to it. You gotta have a client that’s willing to take the chance, because at some point they’re gonna offer you money. And so, you know, having the, having the belief to tell the client, “Look, if you want to try this case, I believe in it.

 

I can’t guarantee it’s gonna win, but I believe in it.” You know? And not… ‘Cause you can guide a client to resolving the case, and sometimes it is in their interest. I’m not… You know, sometimes it is. But if you have a client that has high risk tolerance don’t be afraid to try the case, you know.

 

Because there are only so many chances you have as a personal injury lawyer to try the case with the big damages. And so, so I think that’s one. Another is you just gotta be dogged and think outside the [00:22:00] box. I mean, and, you know, in some of the cases we’ve found, I mean, I, you know, one of the first, the biggest ver- One of…

 

My, my first large jury verdict was a a verdict against Marta, where a guy fell over a railing and offered us no money before trial. they were saying, “This is a, this is a dog case. It’s not worth any money.” My client was four times the legal limit drunk. He wasn’t driving. He was– But he was 0.32 which is you know, his BAC, which was you’d have to drink more than a full bottle of, of like a full bottle of vodka to get there in a two-hour period, and he fell over a railing and at a MARTA train station.

 

And you know, we, we just use every possible resource. We, we– I’ve scoured historical website data and, and found that MARTA had promoted itself as a safe alternative to drunk driving, you know, and when is MARTA smarter? And, you know, we also… You know, you just find… There, there was a lie that was told in the case that MARTA has its own police department, and they had identified this guy as [00:23:00] as…

 

and, you know, I’m not s- not saying it was nefarious. They just at the time thought it was a suicide. That was what it was labeled by the police department. And and obviously that was not consistent with our evaluation of what happened. You know, and they also blamed him for falling over the railing and not knowing that there was this defect there, not seeing it because he was so drunk.

 

But it had been there for six months, and so MARTA, no employees would come forward and say, “Hey, we knew it was there.” And so, you know, which we just thought was hypocritical that this drunk guy is supposed to discover this defect. but MARTA didn’t held its- held, hol- hold itself to that same standard.

 

So, you know, that was a case that that frankly, I, I was working for another attorney at the time not Pete Law. And we were gonna pass on the case and I was like, “Please, like just let me take the case and I’ll, I’ll run with it, you know. And I’ll do it all myself.

 

It’s, you know… And, and, and I’ll just try it.” And I was granted the opportunity to do that and actually took that case with me when I started my own firm. And yeah, it just worked out. It a jury put 85% of fault on MARTA [00:24:00] and, and awarded 11.25 million, which at the time was the largest premises liability verdict in the state, in Georgia in 2018.

 

So, that was just one of those times where we were gonna pass on a case, multiple people had passed on it and something about it just struck me. I just thought, “You’re holding this guy to a standard that you don’t hold yourself to.” And and everybody deserves to be safe. I mean, I think that’s part of this.

 

You know, I just believed everybody deserved to be safe. So I… That’s a long-winded answer for saying, number one, put yourself in position to do it. You know, you got it. There is some luck to it. But once you get it, find the, find the thing about it that resonates with you and that you think can resonate with a jury and then, you know, don’t give up on the case.

 

Take a chance on it.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: Well, the other thing too, a lot of younger lawyers, not all, but many younger lawyers are sort of passive in their career. They just wait for somebody to hand them an assignment or hand them a case. Sometimes if you fight and advocate for the opportunity, whether it’s the case [00:25:00] or the deposition or, “Hey, let me do the opening,” whatever it is, you gotta ask for it.

 

And sometimes you ask more than once. Sometimes you gotta beg for it. I mean, I always know as I’ve, you know, over the years, the lawyers that, the younger lawyers that are coming to me saying, “I want this, I want this, I want this,” you already know they’re gonna do well in their career versus the ones that are just sort of like, you know, waiting for you to give them something.

 

Christopher Newbern: That’s, that’s 100% true. Yeah, I mean, that, that i- that is one of those times where you know, looking back you’re like, “Oh, is it clairvoyance?” And it’s really not. At the time, I didn’t care if I won or lost, you know. I just wanted to take a shot. I knew I wanted to be a trial lawyer, and at that point, that was one of the reasons I, you know…

 

It’s hard. As a defense lawyer, you know, you’ve gotta work. I was impatient. I wanted to get in front of the jury. I want, you know, that was part of, I wanted to get in front of a jury and, and being a lawyer, it’s you know, depending on the situation, can take time. And so at the time of it, one, I thought I could win, but, but even more than that, I just wanted a shot.

 

I just wanted the [00:26:00] opportunity. And that’s some of when, when you’re, when you’re hiring staff and hiring folks, you want, and, and it’s, it’s something to apply to yourself. Don’t wait for the assignment. Like, when I have my staff, and I tell them all the time, I’m like, “I want you to feel like this is your case.

 

I want you to feel…” And especially as a lawyer, you absolutely have to feel that way. But don’t wait for somebody to give you advice on what to do or instruction, you know. You know, go get it, you know. And that’s, and, and you’re right in terms of building a case and that you, you mentioned the difference between a defense lawyer and a plaintiff’s lawyer.

 

Although I don’t think it’s necessarily true for all defense lawyers. I think it’s, it’s some-somewhat of a cliché because there are some defense lawyers that are dogged. I mean, they will, they will turn over every leaf. They will send, they will, you know, they will get after it. There are some that really are, are…

 

But but as a plaintiff’s lawyer, I mean, you have to. That’s one of the, the, one of the pieces of advice that I got early on in my career is, you know, your job as a plaintiff’s lawyer is people and documents. People and [00:27:00] documents is your whole job. Go find the people, go find the documents, ’cause they’re not gonna come to you.

 

The people aren’t, you know. The, you’re not gonna, you’re not gonna be sitting there waiting by the phone and, you know, the witnesses start calling you. If you’re, if there’s a witness out there that you need that’s gonna help your case, you gotta go find them and call them. If there’s a document out there, they’re not gonna, they’re, it’s not just gonna show up.

 

And some, you know, sometimes you’ll get it in regular discovery, but most of the time, the really good documents They’re not gonna hit you– They’re not gonna come to you until you’ve sent 6.4 letters, until you’ve, you know, a- taken depositions, taken fo- sent follow-up requests, like maybe sent a motion to compel.

 

That’s where the real magic is, because if they don’t have to turn over a document, they’re not going to, you know? So yeah, I, I 100% agree with that. Put yourself in a position to win.

 

Real quick, if you haven’t gotten a copy yet, please check out my book, the Law Firm Lifecycle. It’s written for law firm owners and those who plan to be owners. In the book, I discuss various issues that come up as a law firm progresses through the stages of its growth [00:28:00] from just before starting a firm to when it comes to an end.

 

The law firm lifecycle is available on Amazon. Now, back to the show.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: So, so I wanna shift a little bit. So you had mentioned earlier, and you’re sort of known for, you’ve done a lot of, I mean, you came out of some firms that did a lot of negligent security cases here in Georgia. And for a while, those were big cases big verdicts, big verdicts, lots of big verdicts. And when you get lots of big verdicts sustained over a long period of time, what happens?

 

Tort reform happens. And so that happened, I don’t know if it’s been a year or two, I, I lose track of time now in Georgia

 

Christopher Newbern: It’s been almost… It’s been just over a year. It, it was implement- That it came into effect in late April of 2025.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: And so I’ve talked to some folks before in other practice areas that either a, a Supreme Court decision or a change of the law, whatever, just eviscerates, largely eviscerates their practice almost overnight. what did, did that law, series of law changes do for your [00:29:00] practice and, and sort of how are you reacting?

 

Christopher Newbern: Well, without getting too technical into it, you know, it used to be the, the standard for negligent security. Negligent security, for those that aren’t familiar with it, is it’s essentially just premises liability law. So slip and fall on a puddle of water at Walmart, basic- the same essential thought process applied to violent crime.

 

So, if a violent crime happens on a commercial premises, you know, is the person that was injured an invite– or killed an invitee? Did they have a business relationship with the owner, therefore they’re owed a duty of care? Was there a dangerous condition on the property that the owner knew or should have known was on the property?

 

And did they take reasonable steps to make it safe? And so if they knew that there was a dangerous person on the property, maybe they have some duty to, to deal with that person. Do they… If they have a– If they know that there’s a lot of cr- random crime happening on the property, there’s a lot of gr- gang activity happening on the property, maybe they have a duty to hire security or do something about it.

 

If they know that their lights aren’t working throughout the [00:30:00] property, the gate broke down, just basic, basic measures that are there to p- keep people safe, they have an obligation to, just like wiping up a puddle on the floor. And so that’s the way that Georgia has operated for a very long time and that changed last year.

 

And, and I under- you know, I’m not a politician. I was not involved. I, you know, I was not real involved in the… I just kinda take the law as it comes and but so I won’t, you know… Obviously, I don’t like the change that, you know, the change was basically to make it far more restrictive. And, it- they’ve raised the the standard for proving a property owner is liable in the context of third-party crime on a commercial premises to such a level that it, it’s m-much more difficult, if not impossible in some circumstances, to pursue a claim where you would have had a very obvious claim in the past.

 

There’s not a lot– There’s no real, like, there’s not a lot of appellate decisions yet because the law is new. Like I said, it just came into effect in [00:31:00] April, and it hasn’t really been tested. So, you know, it– a little bit of is unknown as to the full extent of the consequence of it. But the practical reality is people just aren’t signing up those cases anymore.

 

They’re not prosecuting those cases the same way anymore. And I, you know, on a non-legal side, I, I don’t think that’s a great thing because it disincentivizes people to make properties safer. I mean, I can understand the thought process of there’s too many of these cases, and they’re very difficult to defend because it is nebulous.

 

What’s the dangerous condition? What’s the reasonable step I should have taken to deal with that dangerous condition, you know? And how would it have actually prevented this crime? I understand that that’s nebu-nebulous, and it’s difficult. I just prefer we let juries deal with those difficult issues, and also the incentives are correct because it, it incentivizes people, as difficult as it might be, to take reasonable steps to make their property safe and, and prevent loss of life or catastrophic injury.

 

But all that being said I’ve s- You know, that was a [00:32:00] very central portion of my practice. I believe in that area of law. I believe it makes properties safer. Most of those cases are the type of case where w-we’re talking about where there’s very high injury, very high damage. Person’s been dead, person’s deceased or very, very badly hurt.

 

You don’t get shot… You usually don’t get shot, and it’s like a scrape. You know what I mean? Or a broken bone, you know. You, you’re very, very badly hurt. And is there liability? Who knows? You know, we’re gonna have to go fight it out and figure out if there’s liability. That’s the kind of case that we talked about that I would be most interested in.

 

Very high damage, very unknown liability. That’s, that’s the lane I wanna be in, and so that’s what I really pursued, and I had a whole lot of success doing that. And so, you know, I am kind of in a pos- in a pivot period right now. One of the things I’ve done is start taking cases outside of the state because it doesn’t just– We, you know, Georgia went from one of the best states in the country for negligence security arguably, you know.

 

I haven’t done cases in every single state, but it was a, a very [00:33:00] viable cause of action in this state to being, you know, maybe one of the most restrictive in the country. But there are other states that there are other states that have very restrictive laws too, and there are other states that have more moderate Or preferable laws, you know, for this type of fact pattern.

 

So, one is just I’ll take a, I’ll take– Because I have kind of specialty and expertise in that space, I’ll take a case in any state. I’ll learn the law. I’ll pro hoc in and pursue it. Another is, is taking different types of cases. You know, we, we had seen that this was likely. Every single year they would the…

 

You, you– One thing is to watch the legislature, what they’re doing, because year after year after year, they were taking shots at negligent security. And so we knew it was coming, and so that was… I, I started pivoting. You know, it wasn’t like it happened and I’m like, “What do I do?” Like, we had already thought through, I had already thought through this.

 

And so started taking other types of cases, just like the motorcycle verdict from last year. I’ve got some med mal cases. We do some auto, you know, if it’s interesting. And I’ll [00:34:00] do, you know, diff- you know, I do sexual assault cases, unfortunately. But, but that’s another case that’s, it’s difficult to work on, and the fact that the, the, the issues are difficult, but you have very deserving people and people that really need help, you know, at, at mental health hospitals and those types of things.

 

So one is just broadening the practice area, and two is being willing to get outside the state and just, you know, get my butt on a plane and, and, and travel around and, and learn the laws in other jurisdictions.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: Well, I’ll tell you, you know, you know, the, the skill set of being able to actually try a case, like well, try it well and, and get big results. There aren’t, I mean, there are not that many people that do that. It’s really hard. Number one, it’s hard to get trial experience. Everybody knows that. It’s hard to actually be good at it.

 

And so I would imagine if you’re really good at it, you can sort of, I hate to say cookie cutter, but it’s, you know You know how to, you know how to try the case. You just have to sort of learn the under [00:35:00] underlying issues or facts, and you should, it should translate, right? I mean…

 

Christopher Newbern: think there is truth to that, yeah. I mean, the, the, the, the really good trial lawyers that I’ve been around yeah, can try pretty much any case they want to. And because there are certain, there are certain things that as- that aid in you having, being a good trial lawyer and, and getting good results.

 

You know, one of those is like we talked about being authentic and, and having a belief, you know? You know, there’s other, there’s other strategies that go into it in terms of you know, one of the… I believe you try a case as fast as humanly possible because, you know, juries, juries don’t wanna be there, you know, and they get it, and sometimes things can get overly, overly complicated.

 

So yeah, I do think that’s true. I, I also think, you know, being willing to try the case. I, you know, I, I kinda– one of the reasons I, I am hesitating is that I don’t know if it’s that not many people can do it. I, I don’t know if it’s that [00:36:00] or if it’s that not many people are willing sometimes, you know, to put themselves in that position, you know?

 

Because, you know, you get a case that’s, you think is worth a lot of money, you know? Most likely at some point before the verdict is announced, you’re gonna be offered a good bit of money. You know what I mean? Whether it’s, whether it’s early on in the case, whether it’s the day before trial, whether it’s, you know, mid-trial or bef- while the jury’s out, you know.

 

And so I do think it’s, Whatever subset of humans, you know, whatever subset of lawyers can get a big verdict versus the group of lawyers that do, you know, is a much smaller number. And I think some of it is, you know, and it might just be a personality issue of willing to go to that point. And, and, and, you know, ’cause it is, it’s stressful.

 

It’s a, it’s a s- you know, trial itself is stressful and when w- no matter how well you did in this trial, you know, when the [00:37:00] jury is out deliberating, you’re just… the wheels are turning and, and it’s just, it’s really hard not to start picking yourself apart and picking the case apart.

 

And, “Oh my gosh, what if they’re doing this?” And what if they, you know, “What is it about this case that I am not seeing?” You know? And that’s– Well, I’ve, I, I remember one of the big… My, my very first trial was with Pete and I w- I took very little role in the case. And I, I just, I remember, you know, before the case we had made an offer to settle and they said, they said, “No, they’re not gonna…”

 

I won’t get into the numbers because it’s not my place really to do it. But it, it was a, it was a m- you know, a, a decent offer. You know, a, a, a, a low seven-figure offer. And they said, “No, but they’ll, you know, offer Y.” And it was below that, but also a, a decent offer. And he said, “No, we’ll just keep working it.”

 

And so then the Sunday before trial starts, they’re like, “All right, kind of fine. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll give you the amount you asked for.” and, you know, he was like, “Well, we’ve been working all weekend on this case. I mean, we’ve, we’ve, we got, we’re ready to go. I mean, the, the, the exhibits are ready. I’ve been spending time [00:38:00] on my own.

 

I mean, we’re ready to try the case.” So now it’s, you know, he, he increased the offer and said, “If you’ll come up to here, we’ll, we’ll go get it done again.” It was a very reasonable, frankly, reasonable offer, and high but reasonable. And they said, “Well, no, we, we just offered you the amount you asked for.”

 

And he said, “Well, we’ll, we’ll go to trial then.” And then at the end of the first day of trial, he said, “Look,” you know, and ’cause they came and were like, “Okay, fine. We’ll give you, we’ll give you the new amount you asked for yesterday.” He said, “Well, that was yesterday.” You know, we, we, we just, we feel like we’re in a good spot.

 

And he goes and gets a $72 million verdict, you know? And that was when the light bulb kinda went off for me. I’m just like, “Holy cow.” You know, how many lawyers on the planet would’ve said, “Hey, I’ll take X,” and then, you know, the night before trial the, the insurance company says, “All right, you, uncle, here’s, here’s, here’s what you asked for.”

 

How many lawyers would say, “You know what? We feel better about it than we did on Friday, you know, and we’re gonna go try the case.” And they, they, you know, I mean, he’s with the client’s [00:39:00] blessing and everything else, but that really struck me. I was just like, you know, it’s, so it’s, it’s, it is, it is about who you know, th-there is obviously skill.

 

I mean, there’s a, there’s very — There are some attorneys that are just everything they touch turns to gold. And and some of those are process-oriented. You can see some of the, the ways they go about it and things they do, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat. There are a lot of different lawyers that do really, really well, and they do it very, very differently.

 

And so, you know, I, I don’t I certainly don’t have enough, I, I certainly don’t have enough expertise to sit here and tell you this is the way, you know, and I don’t think they, I don’t think it would be even correct. I could tell you how I do it, but it might not even work for you. But what, you know, but you’re definitely not gonna get the verdict if you don’t hear what the verdict is.

 

And so, you know what I mean? And so you gotta put yourself in position to do that. And, and o- especially it’s, it may be easier to do it on lower val- you know, mid, lower to mid-value cases, but on these cases where you’re asking for very significant amount of money, it’s just rare that you don’t get an offer [00:40:00] before that verdict is read.

 

And, and how, and what’s your belief system? Thankfully, my very first verdict, we were talking about Marta, I wasn’t put in that dilemma because they never offered me a dime until 11.25 million came out from the jury. And and I was like, “It does work.” This is actually, you know, it was my first, this was my first trial as a first-year lawyer, and that cemented my belief system, you know?

 

And that, that’s that’s given me– I, I really credit that with where I am. I, I’m very thankful that I had the opportunity to see that one through ’cause, you know, I, I probably would’ve taken a whole lot less, you know, at the time. And it’s, but it’s bolstered my belief and like sometimes, sometimes the case is as good as you think it is.

 

Sometimes the defen- you know, it sometimes it just is as good as you think it is. And sometimes the defense really doesn’t get it. Sometimes they really don’t have a good defense, no matter how much they act like they do. If you, in if you, in your gut say, “I think this is a good– I just don’t, I believe a jury’s gonna get it,” [00:41:00] you know, sometimes you just trust yourself and go for

 

Jonathan Hawkins: And, you know, it– you, you pop a few and then all of a sudden when you make an offer to the defense, they’re, they’re like, “Okay, yeah, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta consider this.” 

 

Christopher Newbern: Well, that’s the other catch-22, is that, you know, you wanna get these verdicts because that, that is what insu- that is what insurance companies and defense lawyers look at. That, that’s one of the reasons, you know, for certain types of cases, the people that get good results keep getting those cases is because they get more money on those cases, not just in trial, but in negotiation.

 

And one is because they believe the cases are worth more money than other people. They just believe it, and that manifests itself in the cases being worth more money, and they’re able to command it because they’ve got a track record of, of getting it. But then we get back into the same problem of, well, now you’re being offered even more money, you know what I mean, on these cases.

 

So how do you keep getting into trial to put yourself in that position if, you know, like, It’s easier to get in trial, [00:42:00] honestly, when you’re, when you don’t have that track record because they’re like, “Prove it.” You know what I mean? You, you, you’re not this, you know? If, and I remember I was at, I was at a f- I mean, we were, we took over a case and it was like, “Well, the last lawyer was asking for X.

 

I mean, you’re asking for…” And it’s like, “Well, I’m not that lawyer.” I’m not… Yeah, and maybe it was worth that much in his hands, but that’s, we’re in a different, that’s, you know, and it’s, they can call it arrogance or they can call it whatever they want to. Ultimately, if they don’t b- if they, if you don’t agree on value, we’ll let a jury do it, you know?

 

But yeah, so, that’s a long, again, I mean, it’s, it’s a long-winded way of saying, yeah, it, it’s you know, that is how you get paid is getting, getting good value on these cases is a function of getting good verdicts to some degree. But then again, to get to that point of getting good verdicts, you gotta turn down good money, so it gets harder and harder and harder to get into the courtroom.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: And, you know, we’ve talked about this before in the past. it’s for somebody like you, somebody that’s a trial lawyer that gets associated [00:43:00] on cases and gets referred cases for the performance, it’s a marketing or a business development issue as well. You know, you gotta go pop some verdicts and let everybody see that you can do it to get the cases, right?

 

Christopher Newbern: Well, that’s true. We hadn’t really talked about that a- as that I don’t advertise. I, you know, that’s one of the things I’ve been thinking about with the tour form is do I advertise? Do I, you know, because I’ve just, I’ve never been a first… I’ve, my cases come from other lawyers and I learned that, you know, that was the, the jobs that I’ve been in were lawyers that work on smaller caseloads, higher value cases, and get referred cases from other people.

 

And so that’s what I’ve continued to do, and I’m very thankful for the, the lawyers that give me an opportunity to, to assist on their cases. And it does tend to be cases with, that are higher value and that have problems, that have, you know, risks, liability risks And there, there are cases where my job is to add value to them, you know, is not to, is not to figure out a way to settle them, is a way to [00:44:00] enhance them.

 

And yeah, that my, my advertising has been, my goal has been try to get in the… We used to call it “The Fulton Daily Report.” I guess it’s still called that, but there’s a lawyer’s magazine in Georgia that they used to… The print copies were great ’cause they’d go on everybody’s… That used, that was the sweet spot, is try to get on the front page of that thing, and it’s in everybody’s office.

 

I wish they still did that ’cause, you know,

 

I’ve, 

 

Jonathan Hawkins: know, I tell you, I just interrupted you. That have the digital version now. I try, I tried to subscribe to that. I don’t even know how… it’s terrible. And I’ve s-

 

Christopher Newbern: Well, ’cause it’s,

 

Jonathan Hawkins: should get together and start a new, yeah, start a new paper. I mean,

 

Christopher Newbern: I th- it used, I just don’t, they had the market cornered. I don’t, I mean, I’m not in their business, you know, I, I guess all print media is, you know, is difficult at this point. But I mean, that used to be everybody would, everybody would receive it, and everybody would read it.

 

And the, the biggest promotion as a pr- plaintiff, especially a referral-based lawyer like me that could have, is to be on, is to get on the front page of that thing. And that, [00:45:00] Yeah, we should. We sh- I mean, that was such a, They had, they were the gold standard, and now it’s, you know, they’re just one of, they’re just one of 80 emails you get in a day and, and it’s, you know, a lot of the times it’s not even tailored to your…

 

It’ll show na- nationwide news and all

 

Jonathan Hawkins: behind a paywall and all. It’s just, I tried to subscribe, I couldn’t even get in there. Somebody needs to fix that, but… So I wanna circle back to change again. So you, within the last couple years, went out and started your own firm. You decided to break off, do your own thing. And, you know, so it’s different when it’s just you, and you maybe have, I think you said a couple paralegals now. What’s that been like?

 

And, you know, when it’s just you and managing all the stuff going on, especially you said you have a hard time you know, delegating.

 

What’s that like?

 

Christopher Newbern: You know, I have it’s been the most personally rewarding last three years. I love it, you know, every single case is my baby, you know? And I take a lot of pride in the results that we’re getting and frankly, we’re doing really, really [00:46:00] well. And I’m getting some of the I feel like I’m doing some of the best work that I’ve ever done in my career. But it is I do struggle with delegating and frankly, being this small, there’s not that many people to delegate to. You know what I mean?

 

So, time management is critical and is difficult, and I’m still you know, I’m still working through that. And, you know, also family. I mean, family is so important. And I mean, that’s one of the things I, you know, as a lawyer I know it’s tough for everybody, is finding that sweet spot between, you know, being the best lawyer and the most productive lawyer you can be. You know, I’ve got a six-year-old son, so being the best dad that I can be to him, you know, how do you.

 

And then also, who are you outside of the practice of law and being the best person you can be else, you know, because I you know, you’ve gotta focus time, you’ve gotta find a way to focus time in different buckets, and it’s really, really hard. And especially when you’re, you know, that’s one of the struggles here, you know.

 

One of the struggles here is running your own firm, is making every decision. You know, [00:47:00] wanting to see every document before it gets filed, wanting to see every letter before it gets sent. You know, I have a pet peeve with typos, and I just, I like, you know, I want it to be maintained at a certain standard.

 

And so, so I would say, I would say it’s, it’s on the one hand I am able, I am touching every document, I’m touching everything that goes out, and everything’s being done at a very high level. But there’s just not enough hours in the day sometimes to do everything. And so I’m, I am managing, I am I, I am thinking through that.

 

You know, I’ve been interviewing folks to bring in an attorney. I just doing what I do. It is a very, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s somewhat unique, you know. Not, I wouldn’t say it’s unique necessarily, but it’s, it’s, it’s specialized. And so, you know, you wanna bring in the right person because attitude and attention to detail and drive are huge.

 

And, so you want the right personality fit and the right skill set. So, so I, I likely will be expanding, you know, at some point just [00:48:00] by necessity and for quality of life. But yeah, I don’t know if that answers… It’s a lot of work.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: I’ll tell you, you know, that, that first hire, and we’ve all made it at some point, it’s, it’s

 

Christopher Newbern: Yeah.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: it’s… you’re gonna get it wrong. I mean, that’s

 

Christopher Newbern: That’s right.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: uh, You, you take it, you s- you, you spend all this time and fret over trying to get it right, and it’s just like you’re gonna get it wrong, and then sometimes you get it exactly right, but they’re not gonna stay.

 

‘Cause that’s the other thing in the, in the plaintiff’s world, it’s like an apprenticeship program, just like you went to the firm and you learned and you went out on your own. I mean, that’s just sort of part of it, right?

 

Christopher Newbern: You’re right. Well, because most people that come and do this type of work want their own f- I mean, they want their own firm They won’t their own firm. And so you’re right. I, I mean, I think I do have to pull the Band-Aid off and be like, “All right,” you know, “Get in here,” you know, and, and give some whippersnapper a shot.

 

So I, I do need to pull the Band-Aid off. I mean, it’s, it’s absolutely true. I mean, that’s one of the things when you… I mean, o- o- one of the things we were, you know, we were talking really before you get, we got on here about you know, how do you… W- what’s, [00:49:00] what’s advice? And it’s like, well, you know, and you can tell some of what we’ve talked about.

 

I went and worked for some firms that when I saw them, I said, “I, you know, I want a firm just like that.” And then I’ve tried to model my- myself, my personal work ethic and my firm after that to some degree. And so, you know, if you wanna start your own firm like that, go work for somebody that you think, you know what?

 

They’ve figured it out. I want something just like that, and go work for them. But that means you’re not gonna stay there forever, you know? And so, you know, you’re gonna learn and you’re gonna move, and that is the nature of this practice. It’s, it’s rare. I mean, I think it happens, but it’s less… I think it’s, it’s more a, a defense bar where you come in, you work your way up, you know, you start picking off insurance clients and y- you know, like you’re on the seven-year partner track and, you know, all that.

 

There probably are plaintiffs firms that, that do it that way but I would say it’s lesser. It’s just, it’s not the same business model. It’s not, you know. And so, yeah, most, most attorneys that come through are transient to [00:50:00] some degree.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: And I’ll say this too, as a, as a class or as a group, you know, lawyers as a group are 90-plus percent of them are not entrepreneurial. They’re very risk-averse, all that stuff. So maybe you got 10% that start to fall in that. And, you know, the, the plaintiffs bar is just, they are the most, you know, obviously risk-tolerant, most entrepreneurial.

 

They will go out and invest and just take risk and do all sorts of things.

 

Christopher Newbern: Right. Right. Yeah, it’s true. I mean, I, I frankly should adopt… I mean, it’s one of those some people in the plaintiffs practice are advertisers. That’s all they are, is that’s what they l- you know. And I, I remember there’s a guy in college he’s a good lawyer now too that, that was my… I’ve known him for a long time, and he used to tell me the case is money.

 

You know, the case itself is money. You know, the whole goal is just to get the cases, you know. And you know, lo and behold, now he focuses his effort on advertising, you know. And that, that is a, that is a really good business model. You can take, get the [00:51:00] cases, you either work on them yourself, hire people to work on them, or farm them out, get other people to help you work on them.

 

And and, and that takes a big amount of risk in terms of the financial investment is huge on some of these advertis- It’s, it’s just… A- and you’re competing with Morgan + Morgan and these peop- I mean, the, the acquisition is, is difficult, it’s expensive. And I have a high risk tolerance, but in a, in a different way.

 

You know, I, I, I frankly you know, it was never the focus of my interest or the focus of my practice on where’s the next case gonna come from. You know? It just, it just kind of has happened organically. My thought was, if I can get in trial and get some verdicts, the cases are gonna come.

 

You know, they’re just, you know, and I just had that belief system ’cause I had seen it, you know? I had seen it work for others. And so I have not put much time or thought or effort or money into where’s the next case gonna come from. my effort and my energy has been how do I make this case as valuable as possible?

 

Which cases have a shot at being big [00:52:00] in front of a jury? And, and trying to find a way to get there with them, you know? But it’s still the same thing, but it’s a di- it’s a different type

 

of… 

 

Jonathan Hawkins: it’s like the anti-marketing marketing approach.

 

Christopher Newbern: That’s right. That’s right. Marketing without marketing. I mean, that’s, you know, I, that, that is, that is how it’s been. I, I have just been like, you know, if I can just get enough verdicts and be in the zeitgeist of the plaintiff’s bar and so- it doesn’t have to be, you know, the m- number one, but just be out there as a resource for, “Hey, this guy’s willing to go roll the dice on a case,” you know, “And he’ll, he’ll take a big swing and he’s gonna get it.”

 

You know, there’s, there’s value, there’s value there ’cause there’s a lot of plaintiff’s attorneys that they don’t want, you know, they, they’re good lawyers, but they don’t, you know, they, they don’t that’s just not their thing, you know? They don’t, they d- you know, they, they, they don’t wanna go try the case and, and they don’t wanna, you know what I mean?

 

They, they want somebody that, that can jump in and so, a- or just don’t have the time. It’s just hard to do. It’s hard to wear all the hats. It is hard to go all in on marketing and to go all in on, you [00:53:00] know, on, on you know, small cases and go all in on big- it’s just hard. You, you just, again, you don’t have enough time in the day.

 

You kind of have to pick a lane. What is it that you do? And do that really, really well.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: And, and you’ll travel too. Remember, anybody listening, Chris will travel.

 

Christopher Newbern: right. Yeah, I’ll take a case anywhere. I just, I, I mean, I just signed up a, a, I, I just got a referral today actually for an amputation case in Illinois, you know, where a, a, a little boy got a leg amputated on a, on a lawnmower, and it’s kind of a product liability type of case. And I’m, you know, I obviously I, I can’t speak too much about it ’cause I just got it today but you know, I was asked, “Hey, do you do practice in Illinois?”

 

And it’s like, “Well, you know, I will for, you know, I, I will. I’ll be

 

Jonathan Hawkins: now. I do now.

 

Christopher Newbern: I do, I do have a few cases in Illinois already, so I’m, I’m familiar. But it, it wouldn’t have really mattered what state it was. I’ll, I, I’ll take the case generally. If it’s a, if it’s a significant injury I’ll give it a shot

 

Jonathan Hawkins: So as we wrap [00:54:00] up here always like to ask, you know, for any advice you might have for others out there that maybe they, they wanna start a firm or maybe they wanna be a trial lawyer. You, you pick. Any advice out there for people?

 

Christopher Newbern: Yeah, I mean, I, like I said, you know, I, I’ve, I’ve probably kind of already said it is, one is, put yourself in position to learn how to do it. And so figure it out, especially when you’re young. I mean, figure out what type of firm you want to have and then go work there. That’s just the best advice you can really…

 

I mean, that’s, you know, it’s, it’s just hard to create something from scratch when you have no frame of reference for it. You know, and, I, I do think I, I, I was a huge believer early on in my career and still am in taking risks. You know, you only live one time. You’ve only got one shot at this and you know, take some swings.

 

You know, if you you know, it, it’s– Don’t be afraid to fail. It’s, you know, you– Failure is a part of success. And so whether it’s, whe-whether it’s cold, you know, I [00:55:00] mean, the, the cold calling somebody that this, they’re not even advertising for a job, call ’em, you know, email ’em if it’s the firm you want, you know.

 

Try to get the job because you know, there’s so many opportunities out there that you, that you, you know, if you’re, if all you’re doing is looking at whatever the normal job search applications are, you’re just, you know, you’re not gonna get and, and there’s just, there, there’s, I know from personal experience, just pick up the phone and make a phone call.

 

And, and then when you get, when you get a chance, when, when you’re, when you’re in the arena, you know, treat every single case like it matters. Treat every single person like it matters because they do matter. and you know, you just never know whose life you’re gonna touch today, and then they’re gonna come back a year from now, two years from now.

 

It may be, y-you know, some small case that you’re working on. Treat it like it’s really important, like the person’s really important because, you know, and, and every person you interact with, it, it’s, you know, it’s treat everybody with respect and like they matter and, and give 100% in everything that you’re doing because [00:56:00] you just never know when you’re gonna get that phone call from somebody that you don’t even really remember the interaction and it, and it mattered to them or the case and it really mattered to them and they’re bringing you on to something else that’s, that’s meaningful.

 

So…

 

Jonathan Hawkins: That’s great advice. So true. Echo that for sure. So Chris, thanks for coming on. For people out there that wanna get in touch with you, what’s the best way for them to find you?

 

Christopher Newbern: You can email me. It’s chris@chrisnewbernlaw.com. And that’s N-E-W-B-E-R-N. A lot of people spell it with an O, like newborn or Newburn with a U. But, Yeah. You can visit my website. It’s newbernlawfirm .com and you know, be happy to chat with anybody.

 

Jonathan Hawkins: Awesome. Thanks again.

 

Christopher Newbern: Thanks, Jonathan 

 

OutroUpdatedWebsite-1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the founding partner podcast. Be sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts to stay up to date on the latest episodes. You can also connect with Jonathan on LinkedIn and check out the show [00:57:00] notes. With links to resources mentioned throughout our discussion by visiting www.lawfirmgc.com. We’ll see you next time for more origin stories and insights from successful law firm founders.