Kevin Rubin: [00:00:00] But also the fear of the mindset of no one else can do it but me. Well, believe it or not, other people can do it. And you can focus on the things that you do better.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. To that point, so one of the things that has it’s been running, it’s like on a it’s like a repeat for the last few days. You gotta let grow to grow. It’s like that. That’s the mantra that I’m playing over and over in my mind. Gotta let go to grow. Yeah. Which is what that is I have not let anybody in my inbox yet. 

Kevin Rubin: Well the other aspect was also the internal financial stuff. I mean, the beauty of having purely coincidence, my former payroll person who literally knew everything anyway about the inside coming in and now sort of liaisoning with the, still the payroll company, but having, giving her a more new inside look into the finances, which I was [00:01:00] always like, there’s no way. It’s okay. Like let grow to grow. And that’s one of those methods too, where it’s like, all right, what are you seeing in there? Work with the bookkeeper. Like, help me, help us help the firm, basically.

Welcome to the Founding Partner Podcast. Join your host, Jonathan Hawkins, as we explore the fascinating stories of successful law firm founders. We’ll uncover their beginnings, triumph over challenges, and practice growth. Whether you aspire to launch your own firm, have an entrepreneurial spirit, or are just curious about the legal business, you’re in the right place.

Let’s dive in.

Jonathan Mic 1: Welcome to Founding Partner podcast. I’m your host, Jonathan Hawkins. This is a podcast where I get to interview founding attorneys, hear about their journeys and lessons they learned along the way, and hopefully you, the listener, gets to learn along with me. And so this episode’s a little different. This is the first time, [00:02:00] I’ve ever recorded one of these in person. So, excited about that, it’ll be a different dynamic. And today I am interviewing a friend of mine. I’ve known for a good number of years now. Family law attorney here in Atlanta, named Kevin Rubin. His firm is Rubin Family Law. And Kevin, thanks for joining me, man.

Kevin Rubin: Jonathan, thanks for, I’m honored to be your first in person guest for the podcast.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah.

Kevin Rubin: Thank you for having me.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. So, I know about you and know what you’re doing and what you’ve been doing. Why, why don’t you sort of introduce yourself, tell us about your firm, how many folks you have, that kind of thing.

Kevin Rubin: All right. So I’m the family partner of Rubin family Law. Founded the firm back in march of 22. I’ve been practicing for 16 or 17 years. graduated from Emory Law School. went straight into family law. It’s what I’ve wanted to do and been doing ever since then. We’re based, in the cumberland area of Atlanta by the Brave Stadium. currently we’ve got five attorneys, including myself, four paralegals and a firm [00:03:00] administrator. and, I gotta say since starting the firm, going out on my own, which I know we’ll talk about, it’s been exciting to sort of see us grow. now granted there’s been bumps along the road. I’m sure every, every founding partner or partner has had that. But, sort of how you pick up the slack, move on and, and learn from your mistakes, and hopefully. Keep driving forward and growing.

Jonathan Hawkins: Well, it’s been fun. I’ll tell you from my perspective, watching your firm grow. I mean, when you started, you know, we’ll get into this, but you know, you, you were, not super excited. I’ll say back in the day, when you started, and maybe not sure exactly where it was gonna go, but man, you’ve really, really grown it pretty well and I like that. So, first thing is, so you’re not from around here, are you, man, you’re from, you’re from, philly, aren’t you?

Kevin Rubin: Is my accent accent giving away? Yeah. So I was born and raised in Philly, and lived there up until college and actually lived in DC for about five years. Moved back home, met my [00:04:00] wife. Lived in New York for a little bit and then her job brought us down here and that’s where I finished law school.

Jonathan Hawkins: Okay. So I was wondering what brought you to Atlanta? So you, you had started law school somewhere else and you finished at Emory, is that how?

Kevin Rubin: Yeah, I tried one year in New York City and then my wife got a job down here and, weather can’t beat it. I didn’t wanna shovel any more snow. And so we moved down here and three kids later and her parents moved down. we’re not moving anywhere else.

Jonathan Hawkins: Alright. So I gotta know phillies or Braves,

Kevin Rubin: baseball wise, everyone always gives me something for this. I’m a Braves fan because my youngest, is big into baseball. We do travel baseball, so him and his friends, and I’m about a quarter mile from the Brave Stadium, and a bunch of season ticket groups, so I’m a Braves fan. that. being said, they’re not in it like this year, bad year, bad year. but I, I will say in terms of my other teams, I. Loyal Eagles fan all the way. I used to have tickets growing up. Not that we have a [00:05:00] hockey team. Love the flyers. I used to take my brothers all the time. And of course Sixers, I mean, you know, practice, practice, practice, Al so other than the Braves, I’m still loyal.

Jonathan Hawkins: Well, I’m surprised you’re not a Phillies fan. I mean, ’cause they’re pretty diehard.

Kevin Rubin: Yeah, they’re, they’re that hard. I’m more eagles and then honestly, growing up we were. Flyers. I mean, I probably was going to a couple games a week cause I, I was driving and I got the pleasure of taking one of my brothers each time with me. So I had three younger brothers, so I got to go to every single game I wanted to.

Jonathan Hawkins: Nice.

Kevin Rubin: and we just loved ice hockey. Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: Nice. Well cool. So let’s get back to the firm. So, uh, you said you started out in family law, you said, is that always what you wanted to do? You know, some folks. I talked to a lot of people in family law, they, they may start out in sort of a different area and they sort of end up in family law. You’ve been in family law the whole time. And so again, is that sort of by design, by accident? Was it [00:06:00] just your first job?

I’ll say, yeah, 90% accident, 10%. design after getting into it. So I guess after my first year of law school, I got a uh, with a judge, down in Atlantic City doing family law.

Kevin Rubin: My wife and I were in transition. We were, you know, about to transfer down to Georgia. We just got married, she was gonna start work. So we lived, down the Jersey shore and I was lucky enough to find an internship and it was so interesting. and I don’t know why it just. My dad’s a lawyer too, so he’s a, a personal injury lawyer and he is always like, I don’t know why you’re doing domestic. I’m like, ’cause I, I like it, I like the people aspect of it. I like helping people. And so it was, I’d say 90% accident. But once I got into it. I mean, I love it. I really like helping people. I like making a difference in the world and I think it’s a few areas where you can have the personal touch like that. so while it was an accident, I’ve dove headfirst in and, and still am swimming in the [00:07:00] stream.

Jonathan Hawkins: so no, you can’t talk about specific cases or of clients for sure. But, I imagine you see some crazy stuff in this practice area.

Kevin Rubin: Yeah, just, just when I think you can’t see something, you know, I’ve seen it all. It’s like the internet, you know, it doesn’t end. yeah, something else pops up and new things happen all the time. and or new financial, gimmicks, or I wouldn’t say gimmicks, but, you know, uh. Tax code issues, things like that. Everyone’s always looking for something. It’s just in interesting ’cause it’s really, we just follow people.

Jonathan Hawkins: The, the text messages you’ve seen, I’m sure

Kevin Rubin: everything you text can and will be used against you in a court of law.

Jonathan Hawkins: Oh yeah. Be careful out there folks. Yeah. yeah. Okay. So, you, you’ve got your own firm now, but before, before that you, you had another firm, but even before that you worked at a cult, maybe two, three firms. So take me through the progression. So you, got a job out of after Emory?

Kevin Rubin: Yeah, when I was, my third year actually, I started working at a firm. the main attorney was [00:08:00] Nancy Lawler, who is a legend in her own right in the family law field in Atlanta. I was very, fortunate to be able to work with her. She taught me the foundations of family law. I mean, everything from doing discovery, settlement agreements, the law. I mean, I can recite cases that she told me about. it was just amazing what she knew and, I learned a lot. I also learned with her at least, more so how to run a business, even though I wasn’t really thinking about it at the time, particularly with retainers and you know, sort of. You know, she was not ashamed about it. This was back in 08, 9, 10. I mean, her retainer at the time was $20,000 and that was a lot for family law.

Wow. Yeah. Um, and she was not ashamed. She was worth every penny, like for sure. And she would be like, all right, I see the first 20. It’s, we’re gonna go through that. Where’s the next 20? And so that’s something that I’ve sort of taken. I’m not all about the money, but I’m just saying like, [00:09:00] you know, we deserve to be compensated for our time.

Jonathan Hawkins: so that, so that’s interesting. So, you know, I mean, ev a lot of senior attorneys aren’t even really. Aware of the business of law and you as an associate very early, sort of got exposed to that. and part of that, and I’ve talked to some attorneys that, they don’t collect money and they end up just working for free.

Kevin Rubin: Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: Stressing themselves out, and making it all bad for everybody. and so, so part of it was, I guess getting paid was part of what she taught you? Anything else?

Kevin Rubin: well the law, how to do discovery, I mean everything, we had a quid pro quo because I was before gonna law school. I was an IT guy. I spent four years doing it work for National Home Builder. I was an IT consultant. I didn’t want to go into the law at all. my father was a lawyer and so the whole, I didn’t wanna do that. And then I realized that’s what I was born to do. so I didn’t wanna do that, came into the law, so she taught me all that. I will say, I remember, you know, every [00:10:00] month when it came time to do the bills, it’s like we stopped doing all any other work. There weren’t a lot of bills to send out. You know, we had good clients, but we would focus on that. I remember one time we were standing behind the bookkeeper’s desk and we were literally together all writing a letter to one client about her retainer. I, I just, but that’s how much it mattered. And it’s a shame ’cause I know some of my colleagues, they don’t send their bills out on a regular basis, and so they’re behind in the stress and the finances and it’s, it’s a shame. It really is because we work hard and, shouldn’t be working for free, I guess,

Jonathan Hawkins: and that, you know, that’s a huge problem. I see a lot of it. and even, you know, the folks who get in trouble with the bar financially or whatever, or hit the bottle or whatever.

Kevin Rubin: Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: you know, there’s a lot of stress. A lot of it, I don’t wanna say all of it, but a lot of it is that if they just got paid for what they did and not let these things slip,

Kevin Rubin: [00:11:00] yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: it would solve so many problems. but for some reason lawyers are. I’m scared to ask for money. a lot of times I don’t

Kevin Rubin: well, the other thing I, I, and I was talking to my wife about this last night is really in law school there needs to be a class on how to be a business because a lot of us partners, owners of law firms, we are business people too. And, you know, I was fortunate. I was an undergrad business major. I did it work. so I had a little bit of a foundation. But even then, you know, the fundamentals, I mean, there’s so much that goes into running a firm as you know. I mean, you are CFO, COO, CMO, CTO, everything, C-suite that you can be. You are, and we really weren’t trained. Or when we were associates or even equity partners, we weren’t given, you know, we weren’t seeing what the Wizard of Oz did behind the curtain. and it’s a shame because a lot of us really need to,

Jonathan Hawkins: I’ll say, you know, I was a partner at a couple firms [00:12:00] before I started mine. And I tell people everything was already done. It was like It was already there, and I just sort of stepped into this, and if I needed something, it would just magically appear or somebody else did it. But then when you have to do it yourself and build it from scratch, it’s a whole different ball game. It really is. It’s interesting. You know, my, my dad was an attorney too, and I was like, I’m not gonna be an attorney. I’m, I’m doing my own thing. Here I am. Uh, so you ha I mean, I was, you know, goofing off and doing odd jobs and stuff. You had a real career. What made you de decide to stop? And I am cutting out it. I’m, you know, you’re getting a salary, I’m sure you’re like, I’m gonna cut that off and then go pay to, to do more school. What, what led you to that decision?

Kevin Rubin: Well, I, I think I was just looking at my career trajectory, and then I think I realized at that time too, and I hadn’t met my wife yet anyway, or, you know, we weren’t even dating or anything like that, but I was just like, all right. [00:13:00] This is not my future. I need to reassess where I’m going. And the law just seemed a natural, option for me given, you know, my father was a lawyer, I like to argue. and it just, all the time, but, you know, make legal arguments and, and things like that. so I think it just was a natural, I, I don’t know why I was fighting it as long as I did. but I’m glad I finally succumbed to it just said, all right, I gotta go to law school and lemme just go and do it. It was fun. I know a lot people ask me all these questions how to do things, but that’s not where I

Jonathan Hawkins: It’s funny, when I was an undergrad, I tell this story. I was like, I don’t know what I wanna do, but I know I don’t wanna be a lawyer. And so I went to the career services and they have all these assessments and tests and all these things you can take. And then they come back and they, they gave me a top 10 list of careers that I should think about, and five of ’em were lawyers. It’s like, what the hell? It’s a sign. Yeah. Yeah. But I [00:14:00] ignored it until later. Uh, so anyway, so back to your journey. So you started out, with Nancy Lawler, and then you ended up maybe going to a couple firms as

Kevin Rubin: Yes.

Jonathan Hawkins: Basically as an attorney. But at some point you decided, Hey, I’m gonna go out. And give it a shot at my own firm.

Kevin Rubin: Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: So I wanna get to that point. So what, you know, what drove you to do that? I, I, you know, I’ve talked to a lot of people. Sometimes they’re forced to do it. Sometimes they always knew they were gonna do it. they just needed that little push. Sometimes, uh, someone convinces ’em to do it. Yeah. What, what was the push for

Kevin Rubin: you? So I was at, after I left, Nancy, I went to another firm and I was there. I became a partner there. and. Really it was, I guess you could just say it was a midlife crisis. I turned 40. my friend, I was uh, little bur my wife put a party together for us. Uh, about six couples. One other guy there, Hal Lman, who is in Atlanta

mm-hmm. With Will Roundtree. they had just left and for Macy Wilinski and formed Round Klein. No, Roundtree. Lman. [00:15:00] I don’t think Klein was with them at the time. Anyway, they just formed that firm and I remember at the dinner. It was just like, all right, I had a moment and I felt like I was talk, I felt bad ’cause I felt like I was talking to hell the entire time. about, all right, where am I going? You know, it sort of kicked in, where do I see myself? What am I doing? Am I gonna stay at this firm forever? But really I wanted to go out and do something on my own. so that kicked it off. I started making some feeler, or, you know, putting out feelers, et cetera. was connected with another. Another colleague of mine who, I’d known not too well, but I’d known in, in the field, I asked him to go to happy hour, and just sort of pick his brain. And about an hour and a half in we’re just like, maybe we should look and do something together. and we did. And it, it, wasn’t that I was forced to go out in that situation, I just. Wanted, I was looking at where I was going and I wanted to make a change, and I was really inspired by my buddy Hal.

Mm-hmm. And how they were able to [00:16:00] leave their firm of 20 something years and go out and start. And now they’re, you know, they’re doing great. and I was like, all right, I can do this. and I, but I didn’t want to just jump in the deep end. I guess you could say I wanted a soft landing.

Jonathan Hawkins: And by that you mean you wanted to maybe have a partner or someone you’re doing it with? Yes. Where, like you said, you need something, it happens, uh, or someone brings it to you. That being said, it was just the two of us with the paralegal, so it quickly became, all right, we need something. You and I gotta go do it. and we did. And so we did start a firm, built it up a little bit, and, you know, that, that, went a good, almost four years. and then, uh, we partied ways, uh, relatively amicable. and, uh, I far, i, I formed my own firm at

Alright, so let’s go back. So when you, after talking to Hal, you’re like, all right. I’m doing it, I’m leaving.

Kevin Rubin: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Hawkins: You, you explored it, you started thinking about it. You, you know, get your mind right, you know, get the things, whatever set up. What was it like when you went to your firm to say, Hey, I’m [00:17:00] leaving. How did that go? That’s, you know, I do a lot of that. I advise a lot of people on that. So, sometimes it’s, uh. relatively smooth. And sometimes it’s not at all. And, and you don’t have to get in too much details, but Yeah. I guess first of all, like emotionally, I imagine leading up to it, you’re carrying a monkey on your back and you’re probably not sleeping.

Kevin Rubin: yeah, Because you’re like, I gotta, I gotta tell ’em. and then, so,

so tell me about,

so leading up to it, I, obviously I was in talks with my now former partner, but we were. what are we doing? Where are we gonna go, in terms of where the office is, yada yada. So we’d formalized everything at that point. And then. I sort of made a plan. my wife and I both turned 40 around the same time and she just happened to be in europe for a meeting and I was like, well, why don’t I go over there, join you, we’ll go to Barcelona for a long weekend and when I get back is when I’ll break the news.

it was while I was over there. I didn’t wanna think about it at all. We enjoyed our time together. [00:18:00] We had a great time and then coming back, the anxiety, the nerves, the all right, this is it. I’m not backing out. I’m going forward. I knew sort of how I wanted to go about it when I arrived that day. I, again, I wanted to leave on really good terms, because I did respect them. I was there for seven and a half and it wasn’t anything about them. It was, I wanted to go do something so I did the right thing. I went into the partner who I, even though I was a partner, but the senior partner who I primarily worked with, and we were, we worked great together, and I just said, look, I, I just. Been thinking about this. I was nervous as hell. and I knew this would be a surprise, but I I just sort of laid it out flat that I, I think I want to go try and go out and start something on my own. I know he was at another firm and he did the same thing. Very common in family law. I’d say, I would say that, yeah, as you

Jonathan Hawkins: guys are coming and going,

Kevin Rubin: a lot we’re too incestuous is the problem. ’cause people will merge back [00:19:00] together. But I went to him first and then I went around and told the other partners. In fact, one of the other partners was like, well, good for you, and you know, I know I, they sent out a very nice email later that day, just sort of like, you know, we wish him the best. you know, but more importantly, he’s a great family man, husband, father, yada, yada. and it, it was fine. And actually I agreed to, uh, my, maybe I’m one, one of the only people who did this, but, usually, you know, the two weeks and most people. Are like, all right, well thank you, but. You know, we don’t need you around that long Uhhuh No. They wanted me and they, they were like, we don’t want to impose, they’re like, we know a month is too long, but could you stay around for three weeks, please? And, you know, and during those three weeks, I, I even came in on a weekend and prepare for a hearing. for a case, mostly because I really liked the client. But I really went above and beyond. And again, I didn’t wanna burn any bridges. they were very good to me and I was sort of looking forward to, you know, all right, this is what I wanna do. It’s not anything [00:20:00] ’cause I really enjoyed my time there, but I was right? But it was one of the most nerve wracking things. but once I got through that initial one, it was downhill.

Jonathan Hawkins: And so another issue, When people leave, it’s whatcha gonna do with the clients. Now. It sounds like you were a partner, you probably had your own book of clients, uh, that no one else worked with, so it probably wasn’t a big deal about who’s gonna get what client. I imagine that was the case, but maybe there were some that. You weren’t sure where they were gonna go. There may have been some that you’re like, please you keep this one.

Kevin Rubin: Uh, yeah, that, that, that’s, that probably happened especially more in our area, of family law. But, for the most part it was understood who was staying, who would probably come with me. and I know there was only one maybe that where the client was like. I wasn’t, I was like, you know, you’ll stay. He’s like, No, I wanna go with you. And, I mean, for the most part, I worked it out with them, I believe, from what I recall, this is, you know, God years ago. but, you know, you gotta send the letters out [00:21:00] to the client and copy everyone And do all this. And so it, it was more. It wasn’t on bad terms, especially since I was staying three weeks at handling a hearing while the senior partner actually was gone on a week for vacation. so I was like, lemme do the right thing by them. It was okay. and we handled the letters and all that and moving the files over and, you know, they, they’re like, Hey, you can take all that artwork in your office that we bought you. I thought that was nice. I still have it up my office now.

Wow. So it, it was good compared to. To others? Most maybe.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yes. so another issue that comes up a lot is, is staff. You know, you got your clients or they saying they’re going, and then staff. did you take any staff with you? That industry. Okay. Did not take any staff. Yeah. Issue. okay, so going back, so you, you went out, you had a partner and y’all were together for a number of years, and then you eventually went your separate ways. again, you don’t need to get into the details, but. As you look back, for those out there that might be thinking about, Hey, I want to go [00:22:00] start a partnership.

Kevin Rubin: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Hawkins: any advice on sort of, you know, approach to partnership? choosing a partner, you know, dividing the responsibilities once you’re there, or you know, just making it work. ’cause it’s, it’s not easy. It’s not easy.

Kevin Rubin: No. It’s not easy. And, and, you know, would I go back and change anything? For the most part, no, I, honestly wouldn’t. I, I, I’ve learned things. I, you know, it was good to partner with someone who was older, had more experience, had a firm set up. so I was able to come in and sort of soft landing, but also. From the get go, he treated me, even though I wasn’t an equity partner, you know, I had access to everything and he, we both wanted it to work out in the long run. and so that was a great mentality as to how to approach it. and so I got to see, you know, like I said, behind the you know, the curtain for the Wizard of Oz. So I got to see how everything was done, and he was very open about it. to the point of showing me bank accounts, which, You know, I, I don’t know how many [00:23:00] equity partners would show a non-equity partner, something like that. So I, I’m very thankful for that. and yeah, it was four years and, you know, there’s a lot of things. I know a lot of people when I. And it said who I was partnering with, one person in particular was like, look, you know, when I partnered with so-and-so, we didn’t know each other, you know, we didn’t really know each other at all. And here we are 20 plus years later, still partners. So some of it’s a leap of faith. Some of it, maybe do a little due diligence. We, We, did actually do some due diligence. and we went on double date with our, uh, you know, our, our spouses just to make sure everyone got along. which I still do now. you know, I have a, a new partner and I made sure we went on double date. ‘Cause obviously if the spouses don’t get along or we don’t get along, it’s, you know, you’re living with this person effectively.

Mm-hmm. I mean, you’re spending probably more of your waking time with them than you are your actual family. potentially. so, you know, you wanna make sure everything works out well. obviously, you know, it didn’t, you know, there were, [00:24:00] it didn’t work out. and I would say compared to maybe some of the other breakups I’ve seen, we were pretty amicable. There were a few pain points. Uh, I think at one point though, we were just in the office and we really were stuck on three issues. and I think he said, Hey, you wanna go sit in the conference room? And we just went in there and. You know, mature gentleman and just hammered it out and came up with a resolution. and, and it. was good.

Jonathan Hawkins: Good. So, yeah. Okay. So now let’s, now we’re bringing up to your firm. and so you’ve been a partner at a firm. You, you, you started a firm with a partner and now you’re going out on your own. So what was that like in term emotionally, starting over and you’re doing it all by yourself? What was going through your mind?

Kevin Rubin: Oh man, I was scared. I think anyone going out on their own, any business person. all right, where am I gonna go? you know, how am I gonna do this? How am I gonna generate business? I mean, by that point, I had a good amount [00:25:00] built up, but I was scared, no doubt about it. I think anyone going out and, and, you know, being an entrepreneur and having to take on the responsibility and you know, when I had a partner it was like, all right, well it’s the two of us, you know, but when you, the buck stops with you and everyone’s looking at you for the first time and you’re running the show, it’s scary. But I think you gotta, you know, feed off that energy. And, a colleague of mine recently, ’cause uh, I expressed, some guilt about something and she very prophetically said, guilt is a wasted emotion. And that was just recent. But I was thinking back to that with fear. ’cause I was in preparation for this, the fear that I had and how I sort of wasted that emotion. But I also used that to fuel me to be like, all right, what do I need to do? All right now I’m wearing every single hat there is. I gotta find new space. I gotta make sure my. Bank accounts are set up I gotta get the website up, I gotta get some staffing, [00:26:00] payroll, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, everything that you need to run a business now fell to me. so I honestly probably did what I thought was the smartest thing. And one of our good friends, Mitesh Patel told me this was, you know, what is the highest and best use of your time? And for me that is, being a divorce lawyer is the highest and best use of my time. Not creating a website, not running payroll, not doing the IT work. Although I could do that if I really wanted to. ’cause I have an IT degree I, and not any of the other stuff where I can outsource it. Bookkeeping in particular. So what I did was I went out and I found really good people to handle this and I outsourced as much as I could. So I got a great bookkeeper, great accountant, love my marketing team, payroll person. In fact, I actually ended up hiring my payroll person to come in house to be my firm administrator. So I have a new payroll person. but know what you’re good at. And know what you need [00:27:00] help with And outsource the stuff that you need help with that you can’t, there’s no way. Like we were talking about, I was trying to create new email signatures for the firm, so I went on Canva and I spent like an hour or two doing it,

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah,

Kevin Rubin: no, I should have done from the beginning. What I eventually did was hire someone who’s an expert and I could have, if I would’ve just worked those two hours, I would’ve far exceeded. The cost for these email signatures, and there’s no way I was doing them as great as she did. in fact, multiple people have been like, that’s a great email signature. I’m like, I know. I’m pretty happy about it. so, but know what your highest and best use is and focus on what you do best. And for most of everyone, I’m pr presume listening, it’s being a lawyer. don’t do the stuff you don’t know. It’s okay to get help. I think that applies anywhere in life.

Jonathan Hawkins: So, great advice. And you know, I tell everybody first thing you should do is get an outsource bookkeeper first thing. Hands down. Yeah. like, I think everybody tries it for a month [00:28:00] and they waste hours on that shit and they’re like, man, this is, I mean, even the people that love, you know, the former CPAs that love, you know, bean County or whatever. Even then, I mean, just like you said, you’re an IT person. You shouldn’t be doing that. So you mentioned earlier, sort of the fear, and you know. How it, how it drove you. And I, I agree with that. So, you know, I, I mean,

I mean I still experience it. you know, every time you sort of go up a level, it’s, it’s new stuff, you know, new level, new double, whatever. But, you know, fear, uh, I think healthy dose of it is good. It motivates you, it drives you to do stuff. You know, if it’s too much, then maybe it’s bad and you stress yourself out. But it, you know, I do think, you know, a healthy dose of it. Is good for anybody to motivate you. and so I remember in those days when you were going out, you’re sort of like, i don’t know man. I don’t know. ’cause you weren’t used to it. Yeah, but you know, I knew and I remember telling you, I was like, no [00:29:00] man, you’re gonna kick ass. I remember telling you. And then, you know, we got hindsight now. Yes, we can look back. And I was right. You were very right. So, you know, so again, so how many folks do you have now? You how total You’ve got five lawyers. So five lawyers, including me, four paralegals, and a firm administrator. Okay. I mean, that’s, that’s good man’s 10 people. So what is that? How many years has it been? Three and a half. Three and a half. That’s, that’s really strong. Yeah. Healthy growth. and so are you still, do you still have fear? Do you, are you, you’re like, okay, I got it now.

Kevin Rubin: no. ‘Cause I think it’s always good to be on your toes, uh, and, and don’t become complacent. And I’m always looking to, you know, what can we do better? I mean, just for example, this morning I had my primary paralegals in my office and I’m like, all right, how can we change the document management system or the way we file things? Like, what, how can we make it easier for us? And then also, and I get what you all need it [00:30:00] for, but I also need you to, to realize what the attorneys need it for. And while it’s great, we’re tracking when we produce certain things. If i’m going in there, I’m not necessarily looking for that. I just wanna find a document. I want to, you know, be able to go in investment accounts, this account, bam, pull up the statement or, or something like that, as an example. Mm-hmm.

So I’m always looking to innovate and grow and, you know, I think if you just become stagnant and stay where you are, and that applies to everything with, with a practice. I think you’ll just, you won’t stay ahead, especially with all this technology, you know, we’re constantly hearing about ai. Um, i’ve been presenting on it, I’ve been using it, and it, it’s quite, it’s interesting. Am I gonna rely on it right now? No, that’s for sure. There are, I just used one of the, i’m not gonna say because I don’t wanna get in trouble. I used one of the major players. You know, AI legal research, and I typed in a question on something about related to [00:31:00] fees and a certain type of action. I got a case back, it said, yeah, you could do it under, per I click on the link. No, no. Yeah, wrong. So I’m still old school, but. I’m willing to push the boundaries. I use it for other things and you know, I’ve used it for summarizing depositions as a backup, just in, you know, quick thing. I mostly use it for honestly, marketing and social media. Really good for that. Really good for that. Phenomenal for that. Yes. And it, it learns you over, you know, learns your business. It learns who you are. One thing it doesn’t. You know, I don’t know why, for whatever reason, my, the senior partner I worked for at that firm, contractions were never his thing. So then it got molded into me, and I don’t know why copilot cannot learn after, how many times am I using this? Stop using contractions like in my marketing materials. Like I go in and change it every time, but, and it, it should all talk to each other, right? It’s all in Word. It’s in copilot, blah, blah, blah. It still does that, but it, it, it is very impressive. ’cause it would take [00:32:00] me. Maybe 30 to 45 minutes to come up with a post. You know, you’re fine, you’re fly, specking, yada, yada. I just write a simple query, give as much detail as possible, and it spits out a awesome, uh, linkedIn, Facebook, social media, whatever post, and with all the good emojis that I would take forever to find too. Uh, just amazing how it can help you with the daily routine. You

Jonathan Hawkins: I love how, you know, the, the sort of the blank page. Where you’re like, hard to get started, at least get you past that and then you can start moving. So, so technology and some of these things, processes, what, what other sorts of things have you done over the last three and a half years to help build and grow your firm?

Kevin Rubin: I’ve invest a lot in the firm and, that means both in the infrastructure, technology, but also my people. All right, because at the end of the day, one of my colleagues is like, what does the client get from you? You know, you go to court, they’ll see you in court, but a [00:33:00] lot of the time they’re seeing your product, your work product, your pay, you know, your what you draft, and you know, that’s their really, until you get into court with them, that’s all they’re seeing of you, other than interacting with you and hearing you, and hopefully. You know, listening to you, but, for the most part it’s your work product. and so I am always investing in the attorneys, in the paralegals. for example, my, a couple of the paralegals, I found this course through a business coaching program for paralegals. and I was like, do y’all have any interest in this? It’s not so much the work in terms of family law, it’s more of, you know, the. Uh, the, the law practice aspect of it, it’ll help you with certain things on that front. and it was soup to nuts intake, conflict check issues. So that was the first one they did. They all came out of it. Rave reviews over it. So, so where, where’d you find this one? This was from the, a, uh, American academy of matrimonial Lawyers. Okay. There’s some things that I do with Atticus. I know they have a team leader. I [00:34:00] had my firm administrator do that program. And I’ve seen changes already to how we do the intake process. Things we’re asking things along that line. The a ML, that’s the american Academy matrimonial Lawyer one. they’ve done a couple of them so far. It’s more that one’s for paralegals and support staff. But i know the first session of that, they just did and they just started doing, it’s like elite support staff training. they came out with ideas and they’re like. What if we do this instead? I was like, brilliant. Do it. Roll with it. And I’m like, i’m glad. And i’m like, and they, they’re pumped. They’re like, we have some ideas. We, we just saw this. We wanna make some changes. This’ll make the practice better, the flow better, all that. I’m like, go with it. Go with it. I love it.

Jonathan Hawkins: That’s magic there. Yeah. When your team’s bringing you ideas. Yes. You know, that’s the thing I, you know, for me, part of it is, you know, clearing your plate or some of your plate of the tasks. Yes. And, and that’s good, you know, delegating tasks, that’s always good. But [00:35:00] even when you delegate tasks that, that doesn’t mean you delegate the headspace. And sometimes it, it adds to your mental load when you have to figure out what to delegate. But when you can take. The task and the mental load and put it on somebody else. That’s, that’s really magic. So that’s cool that you’re, you’re doing that. So I wanna talk a little bit about, you don’t have to get into details, but the other thing that anybody who’s growing a firm, experiences is sort of the hiring and firing aspect, because it’s rare, uh, that I’ve ever talked to anybody who. Who gets it right their first try. And, and if it is, it’s gotta be pure luck in terms of hiring the right person for the right spot. And usually that first hire, I mean, you know, you’re gonna make mistakes. Uh, either you don’t know exactly what you need. You hire the right, wrong person. You don’t onboard ’em correctly, you don’t trade ’em enough. You know, a lot of it can fall on you. But you [00:36:00] still end up maybe having to let ’em go or whatever. So, you know, over you’re, you’re up to, you know, about 10 of you now. What’s been your experience on just sort of the hiring and firing aspect and what have you learned over

Kevin Rubin: years? Yeah, and I’m not gonna come in and just say hire, hire slow, fire fast. I mean, I think we, everyone says that too much. And, you know, I think. Hiring is not the hard part of the job. It’s definitely the firing part. Hiring is, you know, i’ve, I’ve. And I’ve hired and, and, and let people go. I don’t like to call it firing. But I’ve hired people and I’ve, I’ve gone through over the years, the last three and a half years, a bunch of different people. And, you know, bringing them on board, having high hopes, you know, and, and and the thing I’m starting to do now is I do personality testing as well. I do the disc profile mm-hmm. That atticus, puts out there. So it’s very helpful in terms of seeing all right. How, how does this person need to be communicated to, how do they [00:37:00] or, and how do they communicate and how does the whole team fit in together? So I had the whole team do when I started the program and I did my disc profile at first, and I’m like, wow, this thing hit it, the nail on the head with me. I mean, it was unreal in terms of that, and for those who don’t know, there’s like four areas, DISC. of course someone told me if you have an I and an s. Hire that person off the spot on the spot. Doesn’t matter what they’re there for. I think it’s iNS, it might be iNC or something like that. They are gonna, you’ll find a spot for them. Just do it. So we started doing the disc assessments, just to sort of see how we can all, we all, what our strengths and weaknesses, how we. You know, interact with each other, things like that. I think that’s important. I mean, I’m not gonna hold my hand, you know, if I know the person, and I know what role I need, I’m not gonna hang my head in the, you know, they get a bad disc or not that there is a bad one. You know, I’m hoping that people can train and learn, and I’ve seen that, over the the course of the last three and a half years. In terms of hiring, I. I’ll bring [00:38:00] them in. I wanna make sure, a big thing of my firm is culture and making sure that, uh, you know, I’m in person. Mostly. There’s a couple, you know, if someone needs to, i have kids, people in my staff have kids. They have other things. If you need to work from home because you need to handle something. Um, it’s cool. I mean, typically my response is, yeah, no problem. ’cause I know you’re gonna get the work done anyway, so if you gotta take care of something there, do it. I i, I will have to do that. I want you to be able to do that. I’m not gonna be that type of boss. So in terms of that, it’s the culture. It’s making sure they’re, the whoever’s gonna come on board is gonna fit in well with everybody else. And that’s part of why I do the disc assessment. But just making sure that they. Get our vibe because, you know, with lawyers and, you know, law firms, I mean, it’s, you know, uh, you got opposing counsel coming at you. You got the judge coming at you at times you might have your client coming at you and other people coming at you. [00:39:00] So, you know, we gotta be a tight team and everyone’s gotta work together and, you know, there’s no, uh, pointing fingers. All right. Own up to it or don’t even own up to it. Just get it done. And, and if something’s wrong. Raise the flag. You know, raise the alarm. We got, you know, 98% of what we do can be fixed. All right? So I’d rather just don’t try to cover, just tell me what’s going on. Let’s find it. Let’s fix it. All right? Because I know it happens. It happens to all of us. When I was a young associate. Partner. Yeah. I made mistakes. We all made mistakes. It’s just how you handle it and how you do that. So part of it is the culture, making sure everyone fits in well, uh, is on the hiring side. The letting go side is, has definitely been one of my harder, i, I’m just given where i fall on the disc. Assessment. I’m a high eye. Uh, everyone, I’m looking, everyone is my new best friend.

Mm-hmm.

So having to let someone go is the hardest [00:40:00] thing for me. because as a person I like them. It’s just in terms of where they fit in the firm. It may not be there anymore or some other reason. And that’s the worst. And it, it really is. I’ve not let anyone go, that, since I started the firm that I’ve not. Stressed about it. I’ve not, you know, internally wrapped my. The guilt, you know, in that way I’ll say that’s not a wasted emotion. I think it’s more just shows that I, I do care and I wanna see everyone who, if they’re not gonna be with me, I want to see them succeed. And I always say, I’m, i’m glowing recommendations. It just didn’t work for us.

Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Hawkins: you know, it’s, it is, it sucks. I mean, it, it, it’s no fun letting anybody go. I I don’t care how. How much of a hard ass you are, it’s just, it’s not fun. But yeah, it’s, it’s, and it’s it’s a bumpy road. And the people out there that think it’s just a straight shout up with no issues, I mean, it’s, you are adding people and personalities into the mix. And every time you add a new one. It has to reshuffle [00:41:00] a little bit. And so it’s, it’s an art, not a science.

Real quick. Thanks for listening. If you’re getting any value out of this podcast, please take two seconds to hit the subscribe button and leave a five star review. It would really mean a lot to me. Now back to the show.

Jonathan Hawkins: let’s move on. So. You know, part of the growth of any firm is is adding people, but those people have to have work to do. Mm-hmm.

So, um, on that end, you gotta bring the cases in. Yes. And so to bring the cases in, you gotta do some business development, marketing type stuff. So i’m curious. you know, uh, I’m sure you get a lot of referrals, but, other than that, what other sorts of things do you do to market your firm or or bring in cases?

Kevin Rubin: I would say Honestly, the bulk of the incoming cases are referrals, from other non-family law attorneys, surprisingly family law attorneys, when they’re conflicted out and, they wanna make sure the person gets to a right, you know, someone competent and who can handle the [00:42:00] case.

Jonathan Hawkins: and real quick, lemme interrupt. Yeah. You know, there there’re, um, different levels of family law attorneys. Mm-hmm. And my sense is that you, you, I mean, I know you represent. You got famous people that people have heard of, so you’re sort of probably on the upper, upper end. Or how would you describe, and maybe you know, my sense is that. If you got famous people, it’s a referral. They’re not, they’re not getting you off of Oh ChatGPT or Google.

Kevin Rubin: No, uh, they’re not going and divorce lawyer near me, Uhhuh, uh, or something like that. It is a referral typically from other, you know, when they’re, someone’s asking their around or, lawyer friends, hey, you know, do you know somebody who does this? and that’s, the ones that i’m focusing on, uh, or other professionals. You know, financial people, accountants, any of those types of professionals who I would refer out people to, will refer back to me. And I, I find that to be the highest compliment. [00:43:00] ’cause, you know, I trust them, they. Trust me, will handle our p the best is when I can refer someone back to someone who referred it to me for another matter and we both handle it you know, the goal is client satisfaction. I think someone told me like at one point, it doesn’t matter what the verdict is or the, you know, we don’t have verdicts, but you know what what the outcome is, is the client happy? And and that typically to me is my biggest concern. So I think I’ve built that you know, that reputation, I hope, I typically get a lot of referral former clients, you know, ’cause people will be like, all right, they know they got divorced. Would you go to your attorney again? Yes. And I was talking about this last night with my wife and she’s like, well, and also you get some times where the other side sends you a case. And that to me is one of the biggest compliments as well, is yeah. When you get a referral from the opposing party, you must have kicked their ass. I, you know, I just, I, i’m prepared. My lawyer was like that. Yeah. I, it’s just, it, it’s, it’s. [00:44:00] It’s nice to get that. in terms of other marketing, I mean, I just actually did refresh my website and I don’t know what they’re doing, but we’re we’re getting a lot of, google search, hits in from people. One interesting thing that I think is gonna start coming out more is. People are like, well, where’d you find us

Jonathan Hawkins: ChatGPT.

Kevin Rubin: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve been hearing that. Yeah. So i, I was just like, wow. But I mean, it makes sense if you think about it. ‘Cause it’s out there on the internet, it’s searching everything. And so I guess if my sEO is good, then I think they’re calling it GEO, generative, wait, search engine, generative engine optimization. But I feel like it feeds in from SEO. Yeah. But I have gotten a few lately where it’s like, where’d you find us ChatGPT? I’m like, that’s Interesting. so I guess, You know that it comes in there, but that’s not my bread and butter. No, it’s typically other lawyers, former clients, word of mouth. I mean, I am in a couple organizations that are, [00:45:00] top lawyers and so I will get referrals, especially from around the country, from my colleagues. The A ML. Mm-hmm. I will send people out, especially if it’s all right. Do you know someone in New York? Do you know someone in Texas, Florida? Oh yeah. Here, call this person. I’m good friends with them. They’ll take care of you. and I get that in return. And that’s always nice too.

Jonathan Hawkins: And you know, good point. You know, I mean. Try to keep your clients happy, although in divorce, I imagine that’s challenging, but also, you know, be active with colleagues. Both locally and nationally. I think that’s a great point, you know, when you’re involved with some of these national organizations, if they ever have anything in Georgia or Atlanta, they’re gonna think of you. So that, that’s good. So I wanna move on again to, we talked, we’ve sort of talked about this a little bit. I’ll just call it mindset. I’ll just call it mindset. We talked a little bit about fear and, you know, some of your, your approach to culture and training, talked about that. But, you know, looking back over the last three and a half [00:46:00] years, you know, maybe. How has your mindset changed, if at all, and you know, do you think that’s an important thing in terms of growing your firm? And, and I ask because personally I feel like, you know, you know, you hear this saying, we got you here, we’ll get you there and it’s, you know, you sort of grow up to your limits and then if you don’t change then you’re, you’re, Not gonna go anymore. And so I have recently been bumping up on mine, and so I had to step back and sort of think about things, and and I think I’m going in the right direction. I think my mindset has shifted. But I’m Curious about you and what you’ve sort of experienced over the last three and

Kevin Rubin: half years. I’ve definitely grown and changed mindset in certain areas and, and, been pushed to experiment, I guess you could say in some different aspects. And I don’t know, I think most lawyers were type a were control freaks, right? we gotta, and don’t get me wrong, I try to give my team, as much leeway, but I think at the end of the [00:47:00] day, the buck stops with me. I wanna make sure that the work that’s going out, the representation is top notch for these clients. But, I’ve learned to, there are things that I can delegate. And at first, Like, for example, I brought in a virtual assistant to help me manage my email because it is just an onslaught. It just never ends. And the organization of it is the pain. And also just sorting and getting copied on emails and, and, I like to make sure everyone who’s on a case is copied. You know, are there any action items for me on that email? No. It’s more for top, you know, awareness or later on maybe I might need it, but it’s going through the emails and getting ’em sorted and I honestly was just like, I’m not doing this. There’s no way I’m giving anyone access to my email. And then finally, someone pushed me and was. Just give it a try. Just just get it in there. I mean, you’ve got 10 and I’m not that bad compared to some, I’ve got some colleagues who have 50,000 plus emails in their [00:48:00] inbox. Holy shit. Exactly. I had maybe like slightly less than 10,000 when I first brought in somebody, of which 2000 were unread, which is me leaving them unread. I read ’em, but I’m gonna get back to it. And then of course you move on to the next issue. You still solve it, but then you forget to go back, mark it red and moved it, move it, out to a folder.

Jonathan Hawkins: So, man, when I have, when. Over 70, I started getting stressed out. I know, right? Isn’t it just like you wanna say, I can’t imagine over a hundred or a thousand or 10,000. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I was at 10. A lot of them are old, but

Kevin Rubin: I knew I needed and I was like, all right, well I’ll get to it, I’ll do it. And it was again, the mindset of what’s your highest and best use. And I came to that realization and I wasn nicely pushed by a business coach to bring someone in. Pay them, you know, $50 an hour to go through all the emails, ‘move ’em [00:49:00] around. Get ’em into the folders. Clear out your inbox. I don’t think I’ll ever get down to what? net zero, not inbox zero. Inbox zero. There’s no way. ‘Cause they just keep coming in and, you know, all the your CES are at this. I’m like, I’ll never get rid of those, even though they’re in the other folder but point is that I was pushed and I, you know, the mindset initially was, oh, there’s no way I’m gonna let anyone in this. Now. I’m like, I can’t live without that person. we have a system in place, You know, I will look at an email, I’ll hit a button, it goes to an archive. They go in the archive, they move it around, and then once a week they’ll go through the main in inbox. And if it’s obviously, obviously something that was sent to the client. You know, Hey, here’s a copy of this motion we filed. You know, or, uh, and I’m copied on it. They’ll mark it red, they’ll move it to the folder. You know, ’cause a lot of it is, here’s the service email to the opposing counsel. Here’s the email to the client.

I don’t need to be doing that. But also the fear of the mindset of no one else can do it but me. Well, believe it or not, other people can do it. And you can focus on the [00:50:00] things that you do better.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. To that point, so. One of the things that has, uh, it’s been running, it’s like on a, it’s like a repeat for the last few days. You gotta let grow to grow. It’s like that. That’s, that’s the mantra that i’m, i’m. Playing over and over in my mind. Gotta let go to grow. Yeah. Which is is what that is. I have not let anybody in my inbox yet. Uh,

Kevin Rubin: well the other aspect was also the, the internal financial stuff. I mean, the beauty of having. Purely coincidence, my former payroll person who literally knew everything anyway about the inside coming in and now sort of liaisoning with the, still the payroll company, but. Having, giving her a more new inside look into the finances, which I was always like, there’s no way. It’s okay. Like let grow to grow. And that’s one of those methods too, where it’s like, all right, what are you seeing in there? [00:51:00] Work with the bookkeeper. Like, help me, help us help the firm, basically.

Yeah. And then in terms of other mindsets, I would say, You know, one thing I think is always the constant fear is the phone won’t ring. And Oh, woe is me. The phone hasn’t rung in like two weeks. You know it. I don’t think I’ll ever get over that fear, but I’ve come to the realization and a very good colleague of mine is like, look, it won’t ring for two weeks. And then you get five calls in one day and you got five new cases and now you’re like, oh God, I got five new cases. So you just gotta learn the ebbs and flows. It ebbs and flows, but it still,

Jonathan Hawkins: it comes in. So I’ve got advice for you. Yeah. When, when you’re, when the phone’s not ringing. Go on vacation. That’s when everybody wants to hire you. Oh, when you’re away. Yeah. That’s, that’s that’s smart. That’s when, that’s when the phone starts rigging. Yeah. What the hell? So, okay, I got a couple more questions and we’ll wrap up. So, I guess first thing,  or people out there that are, maybe a few [00:52:00] years behind you on the journey, or maybe thinking about starting a firm, any advice out there for, you know,  starting a firm, growing a firm, operating a firm,

Kevin Rubin: anywhere you wanna go?

So my biggest piece of advice for anyone who’s looking to make a move or, or doing what I did when I hit my midlife crisis of 40 and was like, all right, I’m ready to move on. I would say find a mentor, find someone who is gone out there, who’s done it, and is willing to give you some advice even if just meet with you for an hour. I’m always talking to younger lawyers who are, you know, hesitant, wanting to make a move. I’m happy to give my time to them. Because, I did it, and I wanna see them succeed. And so I would say do that. The other thing is also, like I said earlier, find your highest and best use of your time. So if you’re not a bookkeeper and math scares you because you’re a lawyer. Don’t be the bookkeeper. hire a bookkeeper, outsource it. They, [00:53:00] they’re probably gonna, you know, charge you less than your hourly, substantially less than your hourly rate and do a 10 times better job than you would ever do. Be doing your own books. it is not. Your highest and best use of your time. But, But, going back to that first point, I would say if anyone you know there, I know cause I’m on the state bar committee for this, I think for, small firms or, or something, there are resources out there so don’t be afraid, to ask. You’re not the first person to go through this. You don’t have to go it alone. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. The State Bar of Georgia in particular and other state bars, I’m sure have materials on how to get things going. ‘Cause there’s a lot, I mean, malpractice, your bank account, your, your, everything there is, believe it or not, someone has been there and someone has created a guide and it just gives you that, okay, I can do this. I got it. I see the checklist, I know what I need to do. I know I get need to get on it, but. And talk to [00:54:00] somebody. I love talking to people who are thinking of going out on their own or making a move. I’m happy to do it and I always tell ’em, this is confidential. This stays in a vault. I’m not gonna go and tell anybody,

That you’re thinking of doing this. I wanna see you succeed because I’m sure some people wanted to see me succeed and they still do And you know, if I help them. Then, Hey, you never know, Maybe they’ll, refer a case to me in the future too. But I do wanna see most, most of the people that come to me, I’d say all the people really. I wanna see them succeed and I’m gonna help them. And I’ve been there trials, tribulations. I know what works, what doesn’t. Well, I know what works currently I feel like, and I want to help them and be like, oh, I wouldn’t do this, but I would do that. And lemme tell you why, ’cause here’s my experience. So find a mentor

Jonathan Hawkins: is what I would say. Great advice Great advice for sure. Alright, last question. You’ve had a good little run here. Mm-hmm. As you look to the future, you know what’s next? What’s your vision? You’ve had, you’ve already had your midlife crisis,so

Kevin Rubin: Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: That’s out of the way. [00:55:00] So what’s your vision for your firm, for your life, for your career, whatever?

Kevin Rubin: In terms of the, firm, I want to continue to grow, I added a partner earlier this year. Uh, I’d like to continue to expand and grow we’re starting to run into little space constraint potentially. So, I have to knock down a few walls and a little bit of space left on the floor. But, you know, I’m not gonna let that, box me in any way. Uh, no pun intended, maybe. I’ll find a way to make it work. So I would like to continue to grow the firm, be one of the preeminent family law firms in Atlanta in Georgia, and continue to grow there. Otherwise, in terms of, I mean, I’m hitting a  lot of the You know, the, the peaks of my career, like I’m currently the chair of the Atlanta Bar Family Law section. I’m on the executive board of the family law section for the State bar of Georgia. I’m very involved in the American Academy of AMA of Matrimonial lawyers. Want to continue to stay involved past summer I was a mentor at the [00:56:00] Associate Institute, so I got to teach to younger lawyers. And I’ve been I’m on panels. I’m asked to speak. I mean, I love sharing what I’ve done. And in a variety of facets, not just, alright, here’s legal things. No, here’s practice things, here’s wellness tips because this is not an easy practice. And so I would like to take some more vacations maybe I’ll get a ton of new clients when I go away on vacation.

Right? and also I mean, I would say I’m actually lucky in that I’m there a lot for my kids and my family and I prioritize them, uh, above most everything else like on weekends I’m at various sporting events for my kids. My little one plays travel. Baseball We’re always on the road for that. That’s really what I wanna make sure I’m in their lives while they’re still young. And also make sure I have enough to pay for college. You can work hard, man. It’s coming. It’s coming faster than I know it. But you know, and I also wanna make sure I take [00:57:00] care of my people, who are working for me. A lot of what I do is making sure that they’re fine too, and we’re all good and, and a a rising tide raises all ships or something like that. I always make these analogies to clients and I’ve lately, been screwing them up but I think that’s the one.

Mm-hmm.

So if we’re all doing well. we’re, You know, the firm’s doing well, we’re all gonna do

Jonathan Hawkins: So, well, Kevin I’ll tell you it is, it’s, been fun to watch sort of your evolution in the last four years or so. I mean, it’s, it’s, really been fun to watch and, and congrats on, on all the success you’ve had. But thanks for joining me today. Thanks for coming on. So thanks for having, there’s anybody out there that, you know, wants to get in touch with you. Can look into the camera if you like. Uh, you know, the best way for somebody to find you?

Kevin Rubin: If you’re looking for me familylawga.com is the website. You can go on there and submit or reach out to us contact@familylawga.com and I get those emails and I will respond. And as I said, [00:58:00] if you’re young attorney and you’re looking for some advice, I’m happy to meet. I meet with young people all the time. I wanna see everyone succeed. They were in my shoes. I wanna help next generation. Awesome.

Jonathan Hawkins: Again, thanks for coming on.

Kevin Rubin: Thanks for having me.

OutroUpdatedWebsite-1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the founding partner podcast. Be sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts to stay up to date on the latest episodes. You can also connect with Jonathan on LinkedIn and check out the show notes. With links to resources mentioned throughout our discussion by visiting www.lawfirmgc.com. We’ll see you next time for more origin stories and insights from successful law firm founders.