Jonathan Hawkins: [00:00:00] I wanted to talk about this. So you’re, one of these.

Lorena Saedi: I’m the canary in the coal mine.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, you see it before everybody else. And I’m wondering, too you know, to sort of put a date on this. We’ve been, I guess, been at war with Iran for a while. I guess the war is not, there’s a truce or whatever now, and but the Strait of Hormuz is shut down, and everybody keeps talking about we’re gonna see it.

It just hasn’t worked through the system yet, and all of a sudden we’re gonna see all these prices go up. So you know, you’re already starting to see some things, I guess, and maybe you’ll see even more, but what are you seeing?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. So let me tell you what is interesting is we’re seeing a lot of people be underemployed, but I think they’re going to stay underemployed especially seeing like, mid-level management from all fields really, and they’re being replaced. Now, yes, some of it is AI. I mean, you definitely do see that, you know, I’m seeing people that, you know, they’ve been making six figures for a decade, and then there’s a merger or they just, you know, reduction [00:01:00] in workforce and they cannot find another job similar.

So now, you know, their whole lifestyle has been six figure and they have to scale it down. And so then that’s where, you know, their mortgage is behind. They’re gonna lose that, you know, 60, $70,000 car that they finance. So yeah, we’re already seeing that. But right now, it’s really, most all of my clients have jobs. It’s not that they don’t have jobs, it’s just that they’re now underemployed.

Jonathan Hawkins: So I wonder if we took just your new matter signing information for the last 20 years, ever since your firm’s been in, and just plotted it on a graph, and then we put the economy behind it on the same graph. I would love to see the prediction.

Lorena Saedi: It’s gonna be pretty similar.

Welcome to the Founding Partner Podcast. Join your host, Jonathan Hawkins, as we explore the fascinating stories of successful law firm founders. We’ll uncover their [00:02:00] beginnings, triumph over challenges, and practice growth. Whether you aspire to launch your own firm, have an entrepreneurial spirit, or are just curious about the legal business, you’re in the right place.

Let’s dive in.

Jonathan Hawkins: Welcome to Founding Partner Podcast. I’m your host, Jonathan Hawkins. This is a podcast where I get to interview law firm founders and hear about all the cool stuff they’re doing. And today, we’ve got Lorena Saedi, who is the founder of Saedi Law Group here in Atlanta, which is a bankruptcy niche practice.

So Lorena thanks for coming. Welcome to the show. Why

Lorena Saedi: Thank you for having me.

Jonathan Hawkins: fill in the introduction where I messed up, and then we’ll dive into your… And, and then we’ll dive into your background.

Lorena Saedi: No worries. So, my name is Lorena Saedi. I am the founder of Saedi Law Group. I am a bankruptcy attorney, entrepreneur, wife, mother of two teenage boys. Over the [00:03:00] years, I have been able to build a consumer bankruptcy law firm here in Atlanta. But and I not only manage my firm, I still practice, which I love because it’s very important to me to be able to not lose that connection with my clients.

Before becoming a lawyer I actually… my background was in technology programming and technology. So that technical mindset has really shaped how I’ve built my business, how I approach problems. I’m very passionate about innovation, AI systems, and creating just better ways to serve clients and save myself a lot of time as well.

Jonathan Hawkins: So, you won’t mind if I call you a tech nerd, will you?

Lorena Saedi: No, I’ve been a nerd my whole, I’ve been a nerd my whole life, and I’m still a nerd, and I wear that proudly.

Jonathan Hawkins: So I, I went to Georgia Tech undergrad, so I’m, I’m s- I was sort of a tech nerd too. But probably I, I left it behind, so you know way more about it than I do. It’s just passed me by.

Lorena Saedi: I was the kid that I got a Commodore 64 for Christmas when I was little, and [00:04:00] I just fell in love with it, and I’d, I’ve been programming since I was seven, and I will always love it. If I could be locked in a room all day with my computers, I would be so happy.

Jonathan Hawkins: So I, so yeah, that’s… I wanna dive into that. So as you build your firm and you’re building your systems, h- how often d- do you use that? I mean, is it sort of the way you think, you approach everything?

Lorena Saedi: it is. And it’s funny I think that that’s actually been, for me personally, that’s been the secret to my success, is I’ve always approached everything in a systems way which is very much n- a tech, tech brain, I guess you would say. So, when I decided to start my own firm, you know, that was my superpower.

I didn’t have to hire people to do my website, set up my systems. I was able to… I mean, I’ve been automating for years. I mean, I’m using AI now and I’ve got my agents, but at the end of the day, a lot of that is still just implementing you know, automation and logic and systems. So I was doing that before, so just transferring it over [00:05:00] to a law firm really for me wasn’t that difficult, and that’s really what helped me get a, a fast start running my own firm.

Jonathan Hawkins: And I would imagine a, a bankruptcy practice, is it consumer-facing or business or both?

Lorena Saedi: Well, for, for my… My firm is consumer-facing, so we only do chapter 7s and chapter 13s. We do do some business chapter 7s, but those are total liquidations. But 99% of my clients, it’s, it’s consumer-facing.

Jonathan Hawkins: And so I think having a good, strong automated tech stack probably is key to really running

Lorena Saedi: it is. it is. It, it completely is. And, you know, m- my staff, I’m very blessed to have a great staff but we’re constantly, you know, training. They, they probably wanna strangle me sometimes. I’m like, “Oh, got a new tool.” And they’re, they’re rolling their eyes. They’re like, “Oh.” But then, but then, you know, we implement it, and they’re like, “Okay, this is saving me time.”

So

Jonathan Hawkins: So I want to get into the AI stuff, but before we do that, I want to– let’s go back. I do want to hear about with your technology background, [00:06:00] your programming background, how do you approach, and this is before AI, how did you approach sort of your, your tech stack, how you built it? I mean, when you’re out there looking at what you know, system to put in to run your practice, h-how do you approach that?

And then is it something that you’re like, “I want to get something that I can customize,” or, or how do you approach it?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. So I will tell you, I think over the years I’ve looked at everything. As you know, I think lawyers and doctors, they try to sell us everything, right? They just assume that we know nothing, and they try to just sell you these big overblown packages. So my personal take on it is I don’t want all my eggs in one basket. So I’m not a fan of these, I won’t say their, say them by name, but there are some practice management companies that purport to do everything. And I have tried them. I had, I’ve had some major issues with some of them and went back to my standard practice of I like to [00:07:00] have different tools. Because it’s very hard for an application to be good at everything.

And that’s where they fail. They try to sell you this package that they can do all these things well, and, and they can’t. And so, you know, for me, I look at, like, my CRM. I… You know, the, the one that I use does very specific things for me, and it works great. That’s different than what I’m gonna use for my project management.

You know, there’s great tools nowadays like Zapier or Make N8N, that you can connect and you can… You know, everybody can talk. Everybody can, you know, can get along. So my personal take on it is when I’m looking at tools, I’m looking at that specific task that I want, and I don’t want something that’s so overblown that, you know, it can’t just do one thing well.

So that’s my personal

Jonathan Hawkins: You mentioned N8N. I tried to play around with that, and this was probably 12 months ago. It’s probably– Maybe it’s easier now. But man, it

Lorena Saedi: it is.

Jonathan Hawkins: was hard, and I did not… I couldn’t even connect [00:08:00] everything c-correctly, and I just gave up.

Lorena Saedi: It, it… You know what? But let me tell you something. Keep plugging at it because for me, that… You know, a lot of people are, You know, they’re like, “Well, how did you learn this one? How’d you learn…” I, I will tell you, a lot of it is playing around and getting frustrated, just what you said. You know, you’re like, “Wait a minute.

This isn’t connecting or whatnot.” They’ve made it easier because I looked at that a long time ago as well, and I’m like, “Yeah, it’s a little clunky.” But now I’ve gone back and and even, like, with Make. I wasn’t a big fan of Make. I preferred Zapier. But now I’ve started to come around to that as well.

And you know, I mean, nowadays there’s so tho- so many things online, tutorials that, that are great. So I mean, I, I think just keep plugging along ’cause I mean, those… You know, everything’s still working the kinks out, so to speak. But I think if you start… Once you start with one and you kind of wrap your head around the logic and how, you know…

They all kind of follow similar steps. So, you know, I think that, you know, maybe one isn’t so friend… You know, [00:09:00] c- you know, user-friendly, but you’ll find one that is.

Jonathan Hawkins: So what’s your current AI tool of choice in terms of the big, I’ll call them the big L-L-LLMs?

Lorena Saedi: So right now I actually love Relevance, AI. I’ve been using Relevance. I just… It was one of the first ones I started playing around with. And so I like how I can create agents, and then I can have sub-agents. The, the organization of the application it just… It works for my brain.

Jonathan Hawkins: relevant. Wow, I’m gonna have to check that out.

Lorena Saedi: mean, there’s, there’s lots. I mean, you know, but just I, I’ve been using it, and I’ve been very happy with it.

Jonathan Hawkins: Okay. So, let’s move on. I’m gonna come back to AI ’cause I, you know, we could spend the whole time on that, and I would

Lorena Saedi: yeah. Yep.

Jonathan Hawkins: just quiz you on all the AI stuff so you can teach me and teach everybody. But let’s go back. Let’s talk about your journey a little bit. So before you started your bankruptcy firm, you started at, I’ll call it sort of big law here in [00:10:00] Atlanta,

Lorena Saedi: I did. I did. I did. I started with with one of the big law firms in town. I was, Of course, I was a tech nerd in law school too, and so I was one of those, those law students that I said, “I’m only gonna do tech. I’m only gonna do corporate. I never, ever wanna do litigation. Ugh, ugh, never wanna be in court.”

I was that person. I will say, luckily ’cause I went to Emory for law school, Emory actually has a program called Trial Techniques, and they require you, it doesn’t matter what you think you’re gonna do, they require you to go through this Trial Techniques program in the summer. At the time, I thought it was a complete waste of my time, and I was a little grouchy about it, but it’s so funny because now looking back, I am so grateful that I did that program.

Because even now, like, I’ll think back like, “Oh, yep. Okay, yep, yep, yep, yep.” So, you know, if I hadn’t had that none of my courses were litigation-focused. I didn’t even take a bankruptcy class in law school. I mean, I was so, so tech-focused. So yeah, I [00:11:00] took a job, I was a technology attorney before I got into bankruptcy.

Jonathan Hawkins: firm you were, you were at is at least was

Lorena Saedi: Was, yes. Yes.

Jonathan Hawkins: known as sort of the bi- had the big technology software practice here in town. And they, you know, worked all over the country. They– I think they went to California a bunch. So that was a good place to be.

Lorena Saedi: they, they did. I mean, when I was there, we actually did more IPOs than, than any other firm on the East Coast. I mean, it was, it was a hot time. It was a very hot time to be in tech.

Jonathan Hawkins: W- wasn’t there a law firm here in town? It was like the Red Hot,

Lorena Saedi: Red Hot Law.

Jonathan Hawkins: Red Hot Law Group?

Lorena Saedi: and there was a big scandal because with the Georgia Bar about her name was supposed to be… It was very petty.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah.

Lorena Saedi: So then she added Red Hot Law and then her name, which I thought was funny. Yes.

Jonathan Hawkins: know, they changed that rule finally a number of years ago where you don’t have to put your name in anymore. ‘Cause I had to do that for my firm, and then they changed it. It’s like, all right, I’m taking my name out.

Lorena Saedi: Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: [00:12:00] So…

Lorena Saedi: I didn’t, I didn’t know. I just remember it was, she had to add her name, so it was very funny.

Jonathan Hawkins: Okay, so you started out as a tech lawyer at a big law firm and, but then you pivoted to bankruptcy even though you’d never taken a bankruptcy

Lorena Saedi: Yes. Yes.

Jonathan Hawkins: Tell me about the,

Lorena Saedi: yeah. So what, so what happened, and it’s funny, I think sometimes- what you think is the worst thing that could ever happen to you in your career you know, turns out to be the best. For me when the you know, I’m a, I’m a little dinosaur, so when the dot-com, you know, bubble burst the law firm I was at, of course, had invested heavily in all these tech clients.

And so they were moving… They were laying off partners. They were moving people around. And, you know, it was, it was a bloodbath. And so I had actually talked to my old tech company that I’d worked for out in Silicon Valley. And so they had actually offered me to come and work in-house. And so I was…

That’s what I was gonna do. I was gonna move to [00:13:00] California, and I was just gonna work in-house. And I had lunch with one of my mentors and he said, “You know,” he said, “You’re so young in your career.” And he said, “If you go in-house, you’re really gonna pigeonhole yourself.” And he said, “Why don’t you just try something?

Just try another area of law.” I was, I was like, “Okay.” So I’m l- I’m looking. Of course, you couldn’t find a corporate job anywhere, right, because of everything that was going on. But the two fields that were, that were hiring were bankruptcy and personal injury. And I figured, you know, with my corporate background, bankruptcy probably was a better fit than PI.

And so I got a job at a bankruptcy boutique firm, and I absolutely loved it.

Jonathan Hawkins: You know, it’s, it’s funny how these things happen in life and in career. You’re probably at the time devastated. You see the carnage all around you and you’re like, “What the hell?”

Lorena Saedi: com- completely. I felt like such a loser, such an idiot. Like, I had, I had fo- my whole [00:14:00] focus was tech. I wanted to be a tech lawyer. I wanted to be a tech lawyer, a tech lawyer. I mean, that was, that was, that was everything. But I will tell you something funny now looking back. Even when I was at my heyday at the tech firm, I can remember being across the table doing deals at these CEOs, these very innovative people that were creating these products.

And I remember being a little bit envious and thinking, “Okay. Well, I’m putting together the deal, but I’d really like to be the person over on that other side, you know, that’s, that’s creating something.” So it, you know, everything has kind of come full circle for me now. So in the end, I’m, I’m actually very grateful for that journey.

But at the time I was not.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, so yeah. So you had mentioned in your intro that you’re an entrepreneur, and obviously you’ve started your firm. I don’t know if you’ve started any other businesses, but have you always had that sort of entrepreneurial drive or was that something that you discovered later?

Lorena Saedi: No. I mean, I think I’ve always had that, that entrepreneurial drive. I, I will tell you as a side note, when I was in law school I was, I was so [00:15:00] horribly poor and I was constantly, You know, I was working part-time. I was, I was working as much as they would allow me to work, ’cause you’re not supposed to work full-time when you’re in law school.

But I started doing websites a- as a side gig, and so I was consulting even when I was a law student just to make some extra money. So, you know, I was doing that, and I enjoyed it. You know, I’m not gonna lie, it’s nice being your own boss and just, you know, working, you know, at, at my own pace.

And because the you know, websites were so new back then, that’s, that is how old I am, you know, I, I had plenty of business. So it- that’s really how I, you know, supported myself when I was in law school.

Jonathan Hawkins: So you, you pivot and start working in bankruptcy. Eventually, you go out and start your own firm. Tell me about sort of the genesis of that.

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. So, so I was actually at a boutique firm here in town. this is a funny story, but it’s the truth. I was there for six weeks. I was there for six weeks, and I started [00:16:00] going to court. by the way, fell in love with going to court. You know, once… I don’t know. It, it was funny. I’m like, “Oh, I can’t believe I was so opposed to this.”

But started going to court, loved it and realized, like, wow, like, you know, I could do this. And so I was at this firm for six weeks. I actually, The woman who mentored me ended up becoming my law partner. And so she had been there for years, and we had lunch, and I said, “You know,” I said, “I think we could really do this well.”

And we left, and we started our own firm, and that was, gosh, that was 2004. And, you know, was great.

Jonathan Hawkins: one that pushed her out?

Lorena Saedi: I was, I was, I was, I was, I was. Did not make me very popular at the boutique, but I did, I did talk her into you know, starting a firm, and and it, and it was great. And it, yeah, I mean, it, you know, it’s scary, and, and you know, look, looking back on it you know, [00:17:00] I, I’m so glad I had someone like her, though, that was already seasoned because I couldn’t have done that just by myself.

You know, obviously I was, I was practicing for six weeks. But the business side of it, that, part I was always confident with. My, my father was an entrepreneur. I, I’ve watched, you know, him. I’ve worked with a lot of consultants. You know, I’ve been very blessed to be surrounded by a lot of people who you know, have their own companies or whatnot.

So that was, that was great.

Jonathan Hawkins: So let’s go back to the early days. You, you, you’re at this firm for six weeks and you say, “All right, let’s go start our own.” you barely know bankruptcy. You probably don’t have a big book of business. So, w- what was the plan? How are you guys gonna get clients?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. Oh, oh my God. And, and it’s so funny now looking back on it. So we, we did get… So we got a lot of referrals because my law partner, everyone knew her. And so they’re like, “Oh, you’re starting your own firm.” And so they would send, like, cases they were conflicted on you know, lots of different reasons.

But we, we would get a lot… We were already getting a lot of [00:18:00] referrals. But I will say we were one of the first firms to have our own website back then, so that was huge. So the first thing I did was put up a website, which now I know today that’s just so commonplace, but back then it was not. Most people were advertising in the Yellow Pages.

So that’s when, you know, Yellow Pages were, were huge. And we did a couple of cheesy things. I know we had, like, a little ad in an LA Fitness. Like, I mean, I, I laugh now when I think about all the different little things that we did, but, you know, we were in some magazines here and there. But I mean, it, it really…

Oh, and we for years and I think some attorneys still do this, we did mail, we did mail outs. So we would mail to foreclosure list people that were getting sued. So we did you know, direct mail marketing.

Jonathan Hawkins: You know, I, I’ve heard from people certain practice areas that, that, I mean, criminal d-does that. Eminent domain, I, I’ve seen some of those letters. You know, there’s, Yeah. So do you still do that? I’m curious.

Lorena Saedi: No. No, no. I, I mean, I stopped doing [00:19:00] that over a decade ago. But I will tell you, when I did do it, I learned how to sort the mail, put them into their different bins. I would take them to the post office ’cause, you know, we didn’t have staff. I had to do all of that. So I had a special machine. I mean, yeah, I could work for the post office at this point.

Jonathan Hawkins: You know, it’s interesting, you know, I, I personally have done it. I think everybody that’s started a firm that’s run a firm, you experiment. You try all these little experiments. You try this, try this, try that, and some of ’em work, some of ’em don’t. Hopefully, your experiment’s not too big and expensive, so you don’t lose too much if it doesn’t work.

So let’s go back to the website. So yeah, back then, I mean, brand new you know, did that really just take off? I mean, you know, now SEO, everybody knows about it, but back then it’s sort of like there’s only one website for bankruptcy probably,

Lorena Saedi: It, it did. It did. And it made it really easy because I also started doing things like putting information for my clients on the [00:20:00] website, so then it was easy to send people things. You know, not just keep retyping. There were links, downloads directions, things like that. So, you know, having a website early…

And that also helped having a website early because, you know, it, you know, for your ranking, you know, just for the age of your domains and, you know, the your reputation scores, it was great. So yeah, we were one of the first firms that had a website, a, a bankruptcy law firm that had a website.

Jonathan Hawkins: And so I could imagine the case volume sort of shot up fast, I would imagine. And maybe it trickled and then boom, you’ve got all these cases. And I imagine your practice area is more of a higher volume.

Lorena Saedi: It is. It is. It is a, it is a higher volume practice. And of course, you know, COVID hit, hit everyone, you know, inc- including ours. But o- other than that it is. I mean, you know, there’s, there’s high seasons and low seasons. Obviously when we had, you know, 2007, 2008, that was insane because of the mortgage crisis.

And you know, [00:21:00] now I will tell you, we’re now seeing a huge uptick again. We’re starting to see, yes.

Jonathan Hawkins: I wanted to talk about this. So you’re you’re one of these.

Lorena Saedi: I’m the canary in the coal mine.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, you see it before everybody else. And I’m wondering, too you know, to sort of put a date on this. We’ve been, I guess, been at war with Iran for a while. I guess the war is not, there’s a truce or whatever now, and but the Strait of Hormuz is shut down, and everybody keeps talking about we’re gonna see it.

It just hasn’t worked through the system yet, and all of a sudden we’re gonna see all these prices go up. So you know, you’re already starting to see some things, I guess, and maybe you’ll see even more, but what are you seeing?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. So let me tell you what is interesting is we’re seeing a lot of people be underemployed, but I think they’re going to stay underemployed. especially seeing like, mid-level management from all fields really, and they’re being replaced. Now, yes, some of it is AI. I mean, you definitely do see that. You know, I’m seeing people that, you [00:22:00] know, they’ve been making six figures for a decade, and then there’s a merger or they just, you know, reduction in workforce and they cannot find another job similar.

So now, you know, their whole lifestyle has been six figure and they have to scale it down. And so then that’s where, you know, their mortgage is behind. They’re gonna lose that, you know, 60, $70,000 car that they finance. So yeah, we’re already seeing that. But right now, it’s really, most all of my clients have jobs. It’s not that they don’t have jobs, it’s just that they’re now underemployed.

Jonathan Hawkins: So I wonder if we took just your new matter signing information for the last 20 years, ever since your firm’s been in, and just plotted it on a graph, and then we put the economy behind it on the same graph. I would love to see the prediction.

Lorena Saedi: It’s gonna be pretty similar.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. Are you like a, is it a three-month, a six-month, or a nine-month sort of [00:23:00] predictor?

Lorena Saedi: Do you know, I would say, honestly, it usually seems like we’re about a six-month predictor. You’ll see, like, last year, we started seeing the car repos. Like all of a sudden, the car repos were kind of just shooting up. And then it was the evictions. People can’t even afford to keep up their rent. Now, that’s serious, ’cause that’s where you live. So, you know, we’re just, we’re kinda seeing this. And now, I don’t know if you saw this, but last month was, like, the highest rate of foreclosures since, like, 2007, 2008, like, in terms of foreclosures.

So it’s, like, all of a sudden, I think the banks have just said, “We’re done. We’ve been stretching all of this. We’ve been doing all these loan modifications.” I mean, last month was a circus for us. My staff is about to lose their mind. They’re like, “Where are all these foreclosures coming from?” And ’cause they weren’t with me back in 2000. I’m like, “Oh, this is par course. This is normal.” And so I suspect that we’re gonna keep seeing that each month now.

Jonathan Hawkins: So a couple questions. One on the cars. I mean, the prices of [00:24:00] cars got so outlandish. I mean, just so out of hand. Maybe this will get the car prices coming back down. I don’t know. What do you think? If I hold out, maybe I’ll get a good deal.

Lorena Saedi: Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe you’ll get a good deal. Yeah, it is crazy. The car prices are crazy. And our c- our courts have had to adjust their requirements, ’cause it used to be, in bankruptcy… A lot of people don’t know this. You know, there’s Chapter 7 bankruptcy, where you’re just getting rid of all of the debts pretty fast, like four months, but a Chapter 13 bankruptcy can go on for years, ’cause this is a debt consolidation repayment plan.

So, you know, I mean, you live in Atlanta, there’s a good chance somebody’s gonna wreck into your car, or you’re gonna you know, something’s gonna happen. So while you’re in a bankruptcy, you can get another car. You just have to get court permission. And it used to be the trustees were like, “Nothing over $20,000.”

Well, you can’t get a car. There’s no way. I mean, $40,000, yeah, but not $20,000. And so it’s very funny. Like, we had a couple of moments where we’re like, [00:25:00] “No, the client isn’t being extravagant. That’s what the car costs.”

Jonathan Hawkins: prices are obscene.

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. It, they are, they are obscene, 100%.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. So, okay. So you’re seeing an uptick. Does that mean you’re hiring? Are you to the point yet where you’re like, “All right, we gotta start hiring”?

Lorena Saedi: It, it’s funny. And, and yeah, I mean, we’re, we’re definitely gonna have to expand our staff. Now I am, I am… I’m very intentional when I do that. Especially my team, we’re very close-knit. We’ve been together for years. And so he… I, I never wanna bring in a, you know, the bad apple, right? Because it will affect all of us.

So I, I do know we’re gonna be expanding. We are of course a lot of our administrative tasks now though, we’re, we’re f- we’re using agents. And, you know, not to keep harping on AI, but that is one of the fabulous things about it is it’s just the administrative work. I mean, you know, as an attorney, sometimes you’re like, “Wow, I’d like to practice law, but I’m doing all of this [00:26:00] administrative stuff,” and it’s, you know, it’s your stack is up here.

So using agents for that has been fab- you know, has been great for my team.

Jonathan Hawkins: So tell me some of the things you’re using agents for.

Jonathan Hawkins: this is

a time

to back to AI.

Lorena Saedi: Yeah, Yeah, sure. obviously my field, we’re very document intensive. We’re looking at pay stubs, taxes, you know, lawsuit notices. So lots of documents. Lots and lots of documents. And so instead of a document getting uploaded, someone having to go through the whole thing, summarize it, save a note in the file, put it into the, you know, the client’s file, now I have an agent that will do that.

And so as clients upload documents, the agent will review it, will summarize it, will actually rename the file, because, you know, clients, they’re just, you know, it’s just gonna be doc 2000 whatever, but the agent will actually rename the file. So I’ve got the date, I’ve got the client’s first name, [00:27:00] last name, and then I’ve got what it is.

Is it pay stubs? Is it taxes? Is it a lawsuit? Is it miscellaneous? But it will rename it, and then it will put it in a folder, and then it will put notes in actually the project management system and the CRM and it will notify the person who has that file. And it just does it like that. It’s great.

Yeah. And so I mean, that’s a very simple thing, but it saves a lot of time. I mean, trust me, my admin staff are really happy about that.

Jonathan Hawkins: I mean, I just can’t imagine, you know, you got 300 clients that are uploading,

Lorena Saedi: Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: 50 documents each. And I mean, somebody could just spend it’s all day, everyday.

just doing that.

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so now with AI, you know, it’s literally just minutes. And it’s, you know, it’s fabulous. I will say this, I mean, you know, AI still has bugs. It’s not perfect. That’s why, you know, I’m lucky that I have a [00:28:00] tech background so I can, you know, if I get a notice that there was an error or something, I can go in and I can fix it, or I can, you know, say, “Oh, okay, it was this,” or whatnot.

you know, I, I get solicited all the time from consultants. Like, “Oh, I can build you this. I can build you that.” But at the end of the day, somebody’s gonna have to maintain it. So I think as an attorney, especially if you’re s- you have your own practice, I think it’s worth the time to invest a little bit into some AI education because, you know, I mean, it’s…

Yes, I mean, it’s technical, but it, it’s getting easier and easier.

Jonathan Hawkins: I’d love to hear that sales call where a tech vendor is trying to sell you on something, and you start asking these questions, and they’re like let me get back to you.”

Lorena Saedi: Yeah, that’s usually… I get, I get… They’ll, they’ll schedule a call with their manager is usually, yeah, usually it.

Jonathan Hawkins: They’re like, “Yeah, I didn’t expect this kind of sales call.” Yeah, that’s funny. All right, so let’s talk about back to your firm. So over the years, y- you know, you started your firm with your partner. How has your role changed as your [00:29:00] firm has changed and as, as your firm has grown in terms of all legal work, all management, combination of both, whatever?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. So I mean, as you know, when you start your own firm, I mean, you’re wearing every hat. And I will tell you, my biggest weakness is delegation. I get called on that all the time. My staff calls me on it. They’re like, “Let that go. Let that go.” It is still hard for me. But over the years, that’s been the biggest thing going from handling everything and then, you know, being able…

You know, a- and they say, you know, “Okay,” yeah, sure, like, “No, but nobody can do it like me.” Okay, but they can do it, right? They can do it. So learning to delegate, that’s been the biggest thing for me. Now, I, I still very much enjoy practicing law, and I still cover a few court calendars a week. for me, you know, un- until I can’t, you know, get into the courtroom, I’ll probably always try to do that because it, it’s very important, I think.

You have to see what are the [00:30:00] judges doing the, the trustees, what are, you know, new trends that we’re seeing with creder- creditors. And there’s just something that, you know, can’t be replaced by sitting in a courtroom and listening to a judge and, you know, and taking that all in. And not that I don’t trust my attorneys, but it’s, you know, at the end of the day, it’s my firm and I’m the one setting the policy, so I most certainly need to know, you know, what, what’s going on.

Jonathan Hawkins: other cool thing about if you have your own firm, you get to decide what you get to do and what you don’t get to do. So if you like practicing law, then, you know, you’re gonna design the firm so you get to practice law.

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Real quick, if you haven’t gotten a copy yet, please check out my book, the Law Firm Lifecycle. It’s written for law firm owners and those who plan to be owners. In the book, I discuss various issues that come up as a law firm progresses through the stages of its growth from just before starting a firm to when it comes to an end.

The law firm lifecycle is available on Amazon. Now, back to the show.

Jonathan Hawkins: Okay, so let’s, let’s [00:31:00] talk about getting clients. So this is the theme of getting clients. So early on, you, you We talked about some of the things you did. And getting ready for this, I came across your YouTube channel, so I know you do a lot of YouTube stuff. You got a pretty good subscriber count.

You got over 8,000, what, at least when I checked. That’s pr-

Lorena Saedi: I know, for, for, for bankruptcy, which, I mean, not a sexy topic.

Jonathan Hawkins: So that’s, you know, I, I imagine you’re gonna start getting more subscribers if the trend is going the way you think it is. But how did you get into the YouTube? What, what started you down, down that path?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah, so I will tell you it was very funny. Gosh, this was so long ago. My this is gonna sound cheesy, but it’s the truth. I love all of the self-help, like motivational folks. I love Tony Robbins. I know that’s not a cool thing to say, but I like Tony Robbins. And my husband knew it, and so Tony Robbins came to Atlanta to talk, and my husband got tickets ’cause he knew I want…

He didn’t wanna see it, but he got tickets for us and we went. But the funny part of this story is it wasn’t Tony [00:32:00] Robbins that I ended up like, “Oh, wow, that was some good bit, bit of advice.” There was a guy, Gary Vaynerchuk and I’d never heard of him. He came on I don’t know if you know who he is.

He’s a very colorful guy. Says, says the F word a lot. But he’s really funny, and he was talking about social media and, and, and just YouTube, everything. And, and, and really like he’s the one I’m like, “You know what? I’m gonna really look into this.” And I had been doing some stuff here, some stuff there, but I really leaned into it, and I think the best thing I got out of all of that was pick, you know, pick your thing and then just focus on it.

And so I mean, I have Instagram and I have Facebook, but YouTube is what I picked. And I started going on there, and instead of doing the, you know, the kind of the little mini infomercial, you know, I just started talking and just about just kind of normal things, things I thought my clients, you know, or [00:33:00] consumers would be interested in, and I just started getting a lot of great feedback.

I just got a notification last week that I have… I’ve, I hit my millionth view, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I was, I was like, “Oh, that’s really cool.” But now with that said, I’ve had my YouTube channel a really long time. So, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s been like time, like consistently. You know, I, I giggle when I look at some of my earlier videos, you know, and I’m like, “Oh.”

But, but you know, I mean, you’re go- you know, you just have to start doing it.

Jonathan Hawkins: So let me ask this. You’ve got– We had talked before we got on. You, you’ve got teenagers, I’ll call it. So I’m on some social media too, and of course, my son, like his friends found me, and then they… I started showing up as their screensaver just to mess with him. Do, do, do you get any, any trash from your kids or their friends?

Lorena Saedi: I, I do. When my kids were little, funny enough my son came home and he goes, “Mom, do you know you’re all over the internet?” And apparently they were googling their [00:34:00] mothers for some reason. I, I don’t know. And he said that my, my, you know, my, all my stuff started coming up. And I’m like, “Well, that’s for work.”

But he was, he was, he was a little annoyed, and both my children have made me swear I will never do a billboard. They have, like, made me swear, like, “Please, please.” That was a threat I used to have for them. I’m like, “I will do a billboard right over your school if you…” You know. Yeah, they were horrified.

But yeah, I’ve, I’ve gotten some grief from them about my, my social media

Jonathan Hawkins: It’s like, “I’ve, I’ve got your car. It’s got a wrapper on it, and my face is on the side.”

Lorena Saedi: I didn’t think about that. That’s a really good one.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. Okay, so, so you went and saw Vaynerchuk and you’re like, “All right, I’m gonna do this.” So I mean, I have been uh, and I, I, I use myself as an example because I’ve been saying, “I gotta do YouTube. I gotta do YouTube,” but it’s just hard for me to go, go do it. So what made you do it? What got you to do it?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah, so, going back to marketing. We were [00:35:00] doing the direct mail. I was paying for Google ads. You know, I, I mean, I did AdWords, did all of that. I’m spending a lot of money. And and, and, and, and don’t get me wrong, I was getting a good return on investment, but it just… I, I just hated the whole circus of it.

And I just thought, you know what? I, I think I would rather put my time and energy into that. A- and don’t get me wrong, I mean, you know, I’ll have, I’ll have waves where I’ll be able to, you know… Right now I haven’t made a video in a minute ’cause we’ve been so busy. But you know, I mean, for, just for me, what made me do it is, is, is the, the future, you know, income pro- you know, production that it could do and save me money.

So I just literally, you know, would carve out, I would say, “Okay, I’m gonna batch it. I’m gonna do four videos this weekend.” And I would do it every weekend. And you know, over time it, it just really has built up. I, as a matter of fact, pretty much every consult that I do, first thing the person will tell me “Oh, I found you on, I found you on [00:36:00] YouTube.

I really liked this video on this topic.” And I mean, it’s great. I mean, I, I shouldn’t, shouldn’t even admit this, but I have not paid for marketing in a very, very long time.

Jonathan Hawkins: Okay let’s talk about that So, all these clients coming in and I’m sure you track for attribution, and so a lot of them are coming from YouTube and I mean.

Lorena Saedi: Majority of my clients and just, you know, we’re talking about SEO. Well now SEO is kind of, you know, shifting because now we have Claude, we have ChatGPT. So now you have you know, LLM models. And so I’m getting people that are now coming to me and saying, “ChatGPT told me.”

That they suggest it suggested you. And I’m like, “Oh, okay.” Now I have done nothing, you know, I haven’t been solicited by them, but I haven’t done anything with that. But even when you go into a browser, you know, even if they’re not specifically going into YouTube, you know, Google will still pick up my videos.

So when someone’s [00:37:00] doing a search, it’ll give them an article, but then it will also give them my videos. So, you know, for me, it’s been a game changer.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, I need to get on that. I really do. I just.

Lorena Saedi: I mean, and it’s funny because I am actually a very introverted person. Like, it is not. I am not comfortable, just, oh, you know, standing up there. But I will tell you, I think it is nice for an introverted person ’cause it’s just you and the camera, right?

So, you know, the tools they have now make it so much easier even for doing the recording or whatnot. I mean, I record most of my recordings I do on my iPhone. When I first started I did have a fancy Canon, and I would have the setup and all of that. And now, you know, I mean, the technology is such, I mean, you know, I have a ring light, and I have my iPhone, and you know, I use I use Descript to do my editing, which is great.

You know, it’ll automatically put captions on there. And it’s quick. It’s easy.

Jonathan Hawkins: You know, talking to a camera, that is a skill that you gotta develop because I [00:38:00] imagine, again, you mentioned some of your first videos. I imagine you’ve gotten better at it.

Lorena Saedi: yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: and you’re like, “I gotta be more expressive,” or whatever.

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, because I mean, you know, yeah, before… It, it was very funny. Like it, like I said, it’s very funny. My kids also get a, a nice little giggle out of those videos too. You know, the stiff lawyer videos. I know I, I’ve got a bookcase behind me, but you know, they always have the bookcase in all of the, you know, whatever.

But yeah, it… they’ve gotten better over the

Jonathan Hawkins: You got, you gotta work your kids into videos. You think you can do that?

Lorena Saedi: Ooh, I don’t know. I don’t know.

Jonathan Hawkins: we’re gonna make you famous kids. We’re gonna make you famous. Yeah, so, so that’s cool. So it sounds like YouTube is like your number one marketing eng- biz dev engine.

Lorena Saedi: It is. It is. It is. I love, I love the feedback that I get. And I’ll even… It’s funny, I’ll have clients send me emails and go, “You need to do a video on this.” And so they’ll give me topics. They’re like, “You, [00:39:00] Miss Saedi, you need to put a, a video about, about this because this came up,” which is great.

I mean, I love it. But for me, I mean, that, that’s the medium I’m gonna stick to. And of course, like I said, I mean, I have an Instagram, you know, I have Facebook. But no, YouTube is what has worked for me. And so that’s what I’ll continue to use.

Jonathan Hawkins: And you know, look, you get referrals. I gave your name to somebody about a week or so ago. I don’t know if they called, but you know, you probably still get some referrals, right?

Lorena Saedi: I do. I get, I get a ton, I get a ton of referrals. You know, I, I get clients that come back that, you know… I mean, I’ve been doing this for, oof, 20-something years. So, you know, I get people that have come back and yeah. So I mean, yeah, the majority of my, of my business comes from online and from YouTube, but yeah, I get a ton of referrals as well.

Jonathan Hawkins: I mean, that’s the thing about, about social media. it can be hard to break through, but sort of once you do, then it, it can sort of sustain and it’s… I mean, it takes time and effort, but it’s s- sort of free, right?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah, I mean, [00:40:00] yeah, I mean, that’s the thing. I mean, if you’re, if you are a, a young attorney starting out, that would be my best bit of advice, is pick, pick a channel. You know, pick a channel. And, and then just, just start creating content, but create useful things. I mean, you know, kind of co- I mean, you know, just, you know, not doing an ad, “Oh, this is why you should choose me,” but give people, you know, information and help them.

And, you know, and, and it, it will, it will definitely pay off.

Jonathan Hawkins: So let’s talk about growing your firm too. So we’ve talked about the marketing piece. Obviously you’ve got the tech operations piece going. How much time do you spend on that? Is it pretty much built out or are you always tinkering with it?

Lorena Saedi: tinkering with it. I mean,

Jonathan Hawkins: I’m, can’t help it.

Lorena Saedi: a, geek. I’m a geek. And the joke is on the weekends I’ll come in my office and I’m like, “Leave me alone. I’m gonna, I wanna, I wanna play.” And when I’m… I’m, I wanna, I wanna work on my tools or I’ll sit, I’ll… And I’ll, I’ll… So, you know, I’ll do courses. You know, what’s [00:41:00] new, what’s coming out.

And I am kind of bad about that. I’ll be like, “Ooh, I wanna try that. Ooh, I wanna try…” But

Jonathan Hawkins: it’s hard to keep up nowadays. I mean, there’s so much coming out

Lorena Saedi: yeah, you, you have to be careful with that. And like I said, my my, my staff is constantly like, you know, “Ugh, is this a new s- you know, w- what are you gonna torture us, you know, this month with?” But no, I mean, I, I absolutely you know, I, I absolutely will, will be tinkering with tech constantly through the week.

I mean, right now, just because we’re so busy I am doing, We’ve, we’ve got, you know, right now we’ve got kind of some crazy trials, things like that, so I’m, I’m having to kind of, you know, manage, manage that part. But we definitely are in that scaling phase right now.

Jonathan Hawkins: That’s cool. And I, and I alway- I’m always interested in, in sort, what sort of routines and what sort of things people use to, you know, to get their, quote, “success.” It sounds like tinkering and experimenting at least is part of, part of yours. What, what other sorts of things do you think sort of set [00:42:00] you up and your firm up for success?

Lorena Saedi: I think for me I’ve learned that I have to take care of myself first which has been really, really hard, especially if you’re a mom, or a parent. I shouldn’t say mom. If you’re a parent, it’s… That’s been very, very hard. And so I think that what’s really set me up for success is I’ve learned to protect that.

I’m like, “Okay, I’ve got to, I’ve gotta protect my time. I’ve got to make sure that, you know, I’m good with, you know, with, with my family, with my kids, and that I give myself a moment.” And, and it’s funny, as techy as I am I actually, like, when I’m, like, planning, I actually still use a written planner. And a lot of my friends are like, “What are you… Like, you?” And I’m like, “Yep, I do.” And it’s just a thing, and I’ve always done it, and I’m also a geek ’cause I’ve been… I’ve had a planner since I was in the third grade, and it’s just… And it, I am. I mean, and I even save them. I have a collection. My mother is, like, still, like, I am mocked by my [00:43:00] family because of this.

But it’s what I do. I mean, it’s funny. Like, I journal, like, every morning and it just kinda sets my pace. And then I, you know, yeah, then I go into tech land. But I, I think for me, that’s really what sets up my day, is being able to just have, even if it’s five minutes of just peace, journaling, whatnot, that’s the one thing I, I, I picked up years ago and it’s worked for me.

Jonathan Hawkins: And I’ll tell you, I, I think there’s a huge thing going analog. I mean, we’re just bombarded with these electric signals everywhere, and there’s something about… I mean, my handwriting’s so bad, I still like to write, but it’s, it’s the sort of thing that a week later I can’t even r- tell what I wrote. Y- yeah, it’s, it’s pretty bad.

Lorena Saedi: not.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. But, but yeah, I had a planner. I mean, and I’m convinced that’s why I did well in school. Yeah. ‘Cause I would write

Lorena Saedi: 100… H- 100%, 100%. And I do. Like I said, I, I still write, I still, I still like to write my planner down.

Jonathan Hawkins: Okay. So let me ask this. [00:44:00] What’s– You’ve been running your firm for a while now. You’ve seen ups and downs, you’re seeing an uptick now. What, what are some of the big challenges that you’ve seen over the years in running and growing your firm?

Lorena Saedi: When y- when, when we start to get really busy of course you’ll have issues where things will, you know you know, drop, drop in the c- drop through the cracks. I, you know, what we do, we’re dealing with people who are, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re very stressed out. They’re dealing with very emotional things.

And so, the last thing you wanna do is add more stress to that. And you know, I’ll, I’ll… When we start to get busy, I will see my team will, will start to be running a little thin. You know, and it’s like, I’ll start, you know, we’re, we’re working a little bit later. You know, it’s taking a little bit longer on things.

And so, you know, when you start to see those warning signs, that’s when you have to step in, and you’ve got to… You know, I mean, you know, maybe it’s just bringing in people temporarily, right? To help, you know, relieve, you know, the spike or whatnot. But you definitely, you know, you have to, to triage that [00:45:00] fast because, you know, you know, that’s when you have problems.

So, right now, I c- you know, we, we are definitely, we’re having team meetings in terms of, okay, how are we gonna implement this? How are we gonna implement that? And I will tell you my goal has never been to be what we call a bankruptcy mill. There are some firms in town, and they file hundreds and hundreds of cases a month, and that’s fine.

That’s, you know, that’s their business model. That’s never been my business model, and it never will be my business model because I like… We’re not a solo. You know, we’re, we’re, we’re in the middle, and I like being a mid-size firm. I like controlling the the type of cases that we take. We don’t take every case.

You know, we’ll refer a lot to the mills. We just don’t take everything. And so, you know, I think when you get to a certain point, to me, that’s a luxury, but it’s nice. And it lets me design the pace of the firm you know, that, that I want, that works. I do not wanna be, like I said, I always tell people, “I don’t wanna be the largest [00:46:00] filer in Georgia.

I wanna be the best. I don’t wanna be the largest.”

Jonathan Hawkins: And you brought up a good point. We hadn’t touched on this. This is a good time, is the clients that are coming to you, I imagine, are just extremely stressed out. I mean, they’re in a tough spot. Maybe they’re get-getting foreclosed on, all the things that come with financial problems. And then, of course, that would put strain on your staff.

And how do you, you know, h-how do you manage… And you too, how do you manage the– without putting all of your clients’ burdens on your

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. Yeah, and it’s you know, y- it’s like PTSD. Right? I mean, you, I mean, personal injury is the same way. I mean, you know, you’re, you’re dealing with people that have really horrible things that are happening to them you know, and the way… A- and, and we joke, you know, it’s like, you know, yes, we’re an attorney, but you also sometimes you’re, you feel like a counselor.

And so, you know, I think everyone on my staff, you know, this job isn’t for everybody. And everybody on my staff, you know, it’s like when you, you know, when you deal with doctors, [00:47:00] you know, it’s like they have to… You, you’ve gotta be focused and serious to get to the heart of the matter, but you wanna have a good bedside manner too, because you have to be empathetic with what your, your patient, your client is going through.

I will tell you, I get that a lot. I’ll have people call me and they’ll say, “Thank you for being nice.” And I, and I’m like, “Well, why, why wouldn’t I be nice?” And they’ll say, “Well, I, I called a firm, and they were just, they were just really kinda hard, and they made me feel bad.” You know, and it’s like, you know, that’s…

You know, to each his own, and again, we all… And, and we all have our own style. I’m not everybody’s cup of tea either. But you know, it is hard not to take on, you know, when, what, what these folks are going through. But that’s also why, you know, I like to explain to people, when we meet with people, that’s what we’re…

That’s why bankruptcy, I love this area, because we can immediately say, “Hey, you know what? You’re not gonna lose your house. We’re gonna stop that. You’re not gonna have your paycheck garnished. We’re gonna get your [00:48:00] car back,” because we can do all these things. So, I think, you know, being able to quickly set expectations and kind of calm them down and say, “Okay, this happened, but now this is how we’re gonna fix it.”

So…

Jonathan Hawkins: And I would imagine your clients, the ones that you help, you get them through this very stressful time. I mean, they gotta be so appreciative. I mean…

Lorena Saedi: Oh, oh, listen, you know, 99% of my clients, I mean, I, I get cards, I get flowers, I get hugs which is great. And I always, I always joke with people, you know, like, “I’m a happy lawyer. I like what I do.” I’m sure you know there’s a lot of really unhappy lawyers. They hate, they don’t like practicing law, they don’t like their, their colleagues, they don’t like their clients, and I feel sorry for them.

I mean, you know, you know, my, my advice is do something else. You don’t have to be, you know, a lawyer or pick another field. But I really do enjoy what I do, and I, I, and I think that if you do, I think that that, that’s conveyed to [00:49:00] your clients. So I, I’m very lucky. I’m very, very lucky. I, I, for the most part, I just…

My, my clients are rock stars. They’re, they’re great, and they’re very appreciative.

Jonathan Hawkins: And I think, I think, I think that comes through very obviously just from talking to you. So circling back to, you know, you began, you wanna be a tech lawyer and s- and you just sort of Somehow got on this path is, is, you know, speaking to other lawyers out there that may be thinking, “Well, well, how do I get on another path?”

Any, any advice to them if, if they’re not necessarily enthused where they are in their career?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. So I would say my, my best bit of, bit of advice would be if you’re not happy where you’re at think about why you’re not happy, right? I mean, is it, is it just that particular place? But find an area that you’re interested in. And then, you know, there’s so much out there now.

I mean, we’re talking about YouTube. We’re talking about there’s online classes. There’s all these things. And hey, I’ve done all those things. [00:50:00] I’ve sat and done some of these cheesy little online classes or whatever. I’m like, “You know what? I’m gonna try it. I’m gonna see.” I just admit it, I like Tony Robbins.

Jonathan Hawkins: Did, did you do the fire walk? Did, did you do the fire walk?

Lorena Saedi: No, no, no. I’m not like that. But, but you know, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve read the books, and I do, I, I, I like him, and I do. I get teased all the time. But you know, if, if you’re, if you’re an attorney out there and you’re not… or anybody, and you’re not happy with where you’re at, you know, do, do that.

And the other thing I would say is so many times I see these young attorneys and they’ll start their firm, and I think that, you know, they start out with, like, a great idea and a mission, and then they get kind of consumed by all these people, “Oh, no, you’re doing it wrong. You should, you should buy this.

You should do that.” And, and I think that’s how they get in trouble, and then you see them kind of wash out in a few years. I think, you know, just pick… I, like I tell my clients, pick a path and stick on it. And, and you know? I mean, just, just literally keep your head down [00:51:00] and stick on it. And I think that, you know, it worked, it worked well for me.

I mean, we had no money when we started our firm, and it definitely took… You know, it, it, it takes a while. But you know, you just gotta, gotta trust your gut, but you also have to do something that you like.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. So you, you mentioned you, you don’t want your firm to be the big mill. The culture, you said it’s very important to you. You don’t wanna add some, uh, different personality into the mix. As you’re sitting here today, what, what’s, what’s next for your firm? Is it ac- exactly how you like it? Is there anything that you want it to be or you’re going

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. I, I mean, I think, you know, I definitely will probably be expanding by a couple of attorneys over the next 12 months. I think that’s just inevitable just because of, what’s going on in my market. But it’s funny, I think the next thing that’s really is, is already coming into our firm is- I’ve already been working on [00:52:00] side projects for developing tech products, legal products and also even online courses, educational courses.

And so for me personally, that is where I will be I guess going off into the sunset, so to speak. But that’s what I enjoy. So that’s what I see for my future. Yes, growing my firm, but also expanding into those areas because they, for me, they just kind of go hand in hand.

Jonathan Hawkins: All right, let’s talk about that. So these, these side projects, is there anything you can announce yet? Are they all in development?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, I’ve got, I’ve got two courses that are gonna be launching in the next 60 days. One of them is how to close your business. So have a lot of people who, you know, during the pandemic, whatnot, they come to me, they need to file bankruptcy because their you know, their business didn’t work.

And then they’re asking me, “Okay, how do I do this? How do I do that?” Now, I used to do corporate law but I, I don’t have time, you know, to sit and close [00:53:00] down, you know, show, “Okay, this is what you need to do. Here’s your checklist,” all of this. So, I started I started beta testing, so to speak, with some, some of my clients of sending them like a walkthrough.

And I, you know, and of course I ha- I have videos and I’ve got forms and checklists and things like that. And I’ve been, you know, through that feedback, have been, have been perfecting it. So now I’ll have something that I can, you know, I… It’s an add-on to, to not just my clients, anyone, but you know, specifically like a lot of people in, you know, they’re going into bankruptcy or, you know, have a, have a failed business.

And there’s certain things they need to do and not do if they’re also gonna file bankruptcy.

Jonathan Hawkins: So will you sell that course through your law firm or are you gonna have a separate business?

Lorena Saedi: no, no. No, no, no. No. I, I have a, I have a separate company set up called Reliance Legal Education. And I have the courses I have are how to file a Chapter 7, how to file a Chapter 13. I get a lot of people who reach out [00:54:00] to me from other states. Of course, I only practice in Georgia. I get a lot of people and, you know, they’re, they’re like, “You know, I, I’m, I’m, I don’t know if I wanna hire an attorney.”

And I get that, you know, I get that. But I do have courses that explain the process, show, you know, show, you know, what, what you need to consider or whatnot. And then sometimes I get people who they go through my courses and then they do, they hire me. You know, which that’s great. But you know, that’s, that’s another, those are, you know, other courses that I’ll be officially launching probably in about 60 days.

Jonathan Hawkins: Well, that’s cool. I’ll be– I’ll, I’ll look for that. I, I always like hearing lawyers that Through the practice of law, they come up, they, they see little problems that need to get solved, and then it creates side hustles or other businesses. That’s cool.

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. And, and like I said, you know, it’s just everything’s kind of come full circle for me. So if I can get back into, into tech and you know, I’m working on agents and things like that which I may end up licensing later. So, you know, it’s fun. It’s fun. I’m a [00:55:00] happy nerd.

Jonathan Hawkins: Uh, Yeah, go for it. I mean, that’s the thing. You live once. Do the things that you like, and you’ve, you’ve set up your, your firm and your life in a way that you’re able to do that, so why not?

Lorena Saedi: everybody’s, everybody’s definition of success is different, you know? And I think you just have to be happy, you know, happy with what you’ve got.

Jonathan Hawkins: So, okay last question. We’ve been going a while. So, for people out there that, that are, wanna start a firm or maybe in the early days of starting their firm any, a-any advice you’d give them in terms of building and growing the firm that, that works for them?

Lorena Saedi: I mean, I think definitely don’t underestimate how long you’re gonna not have revenue. I think that… I think a lot of people, a lot of… I see a lot of young attorneys and they think they’re just gonna… Money’s just gonna start flowing in, you know? I, I think that, you know, you definitely… You know, when I started mine, in my head was, “I need to have six, six months of I’m not gonna have a dime, and I’ve gotta be able to cover all of my [00:56:00] expenses.”

That’s another thing. I would definitely tell folks, be on a shoestring budget when you start. You know, the big fancy offices the flashy ads, you do not need that when you start. You most certainly do not need it. I, I, I actually joke that my… I’m actually trying to get away from having an office.

If I could not have an office, I would love that. I mean, we still have a, a physical office or whatnot, but, you know, I see, I see friends and colleagues, I’m like, “You are spending a lot of money,” you know, for that. And now, especially nowadays, I just don’t think it has the same impression on people that it did.

So…

Jonathan Hawkins: lot of people who’ve gotten into money

Lorena Saedi: I do. I see everything in reverse. Yes, I do. That’s true. Yes, I do. That’s true. That’s true. But that would be my best b- bit of advice is, you know, when you first go out there, you know, yes, you can do it on a, on a, on a shoestring, so to [00:57:00] speak. But, you know, just, just put it in your head, you’re not gonna have money for at least six months.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, and then hopefully you have lots of money. That’s,

Lorena Saedi: then hopefully you have lots of money, yes.

Jonathan Hawkins: So Lorena, thanks for coming on. This has been real fun It’s been fun learning about your, your background and, and the cool little side gigs you got that could turn into big businesses. We’ll see. But if anybody out there wants to get in touch with you, what’s the best way to find you?

Lorena Saedi: Yeah. The best way is online, of course. Go to my website, saedilawgroup.com. That’s the fastest way to grab me. You can even schedule a time to talk with me online. You don’t even have to talk to anybody in my office. There’s a link, and you can just find a time. And I’m always happy to chat with folks about any bankruptcy issues.

Jonathan Hawkins: Awesome. Well, thanks again. It’s been fun.

Lorena Saedi: No, thank you for having me.

OutroUpdatedWebsite-1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the founding partner podcast. Be sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts to stay up to date on the latest episodes. You can also connect with Jonathan on [00:58:00] LinkedIn and check out the show notes. With links to resources mentioned throughout our discussion by visiting www.lawfirmgc.com. We’ll see you next time for more origin stories and insights from successful law firm founders.